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Pessimism is a barrier to progress

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Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#81

Post by decremental »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #62
id wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://twitter.com/GatesJets Hard to take Gates seriously on climate change. Imagine everyone was living like this.

Yup... Do as you preach, and others will follow. Flying your private jet to a conference, and tell Johnny Average that he shouldn't use his car to drive to his workplace is a shitty thing to do. And he's far from being the only one doing that.

Similarly the vocal and rich advocates for climate change policy buying beachfront property on Martha's Vinyard. To say that these people are merely hypocrites is being too generous. They don't believe what they're saying at all.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#82

Post by mistermann »

sitkack wrote: post #69
worldsayshi wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm definitely on the left side of the political spectrum. But I am very frustrated by how leftism seems so often be so centred on critique (a negative trait) rather than building ideas/stuff. "Speaking truth to power" is not really working because power doesn't care. Organizing seldom leads anywhere because it's just interpreted as more of "speaking truth to power" through protest. More critique. If a power structur…

> But I am very frustrated by how leftism seems so often be so centred on critique (a negative trait) rather than building ideas/stuff. You realize that this is rhetorical scam to prevent the questioning of action and the suppression of dissent? The left has plenty of good ideas on how to constructively corral the greed and stupidity of the right. And no unions are not out of fashion.

Let's just hope you are not grading on a curve.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#83

Post by sidewndr46 »

samatman wrote: post #74
bamboozled wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is amazing and really goes to show the dude, no matter how good his intentions may be, is a hypocrite. One rule for him, different rules for everyone else.

I dislike Gates for the old reasons, and some of the new ones as well. But this basic argument from hypocrisy is applied to a lot of people, and it's a weak case. If someone is using an appreciable fraction of their fortune to decarbonize the grid, and otherwise make industrial civilization sustainable, they can fly private jets as much as they like. Ultimately, carbon in the atmosphere is a simple game of addition.…

You are now comparing Gates to a dictator in a country that brutally murders reporters for publishing critical pieces. Amongst other atrocities. I wouldn't give Bill G the time of day if on the street, but this is a pointless comparison.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#84

Post by wara23arish »

kashyapc wrote: post #58

(Verbatim re-posting a past comment[+] of mine that seemed to have resonated with HN folks.) Hans Rosling[1] used to call himself a "very serious possibilist": People often call me an optimist, because I show them the enormous progress they didn't know about. That makes me angry. I'm not an optimist. That makes me sound naive. I'm a very serious “possibilist”. That's something I made up. It means someone who neither…

I think thats a great book! I’ve read it too.

The irony is I learned about it from Bill Gates’s book list recommendations years ago.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#85

Post by BurningFrog »

id wrote: post #57
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #46

This feels like a "terrorist/freedom-fighter" thing and so is effectively saying nothing. Like, Bill Gates accepts climate change is happening, that we should do something to avert the problems, and thinks that we can do that as a species. He thinks that renewables and EVs etc. will all help, but aren't enough and we should look for newer solutions. He has invested in multiple different solutions, presumably because…

https://twitter.com/GatesJets Hard to take Gates seriously on climate change. Imagine everyone was living like this.

What you or I, or even Gates do in our personal lives has absolutely no effect on climate change.

Solutions or failures happen in other contexts. Gates does some real work in those.

The whole "I must recycle all my plastic bags or the planet will die" mentality is, to me, a weird form of delusion of grandeur. Seeing past that can be both freeing and depressing :)

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#86

Post by deltree7 »

id wrote: post #57
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #46

This feels like a "terrorist/freedom-fighter" thing and so is effectively saying nothing. Like, Bill Gates accepts climate change is happening, that we should do something to avert the problems, and thinks that we can do that as a species. He thinks that renewables and EVs etc. will all help, but aren't enough and we should look for newer solutions. He has invested in multiple different solutions, presumably because…

https://twitter.com/GatesJets Hard to take Gates seriously on climate change. Imagine everyone was living like this.

This is the dumbest take on Climate Change and I can't believe the HN crowd falls for it.

Thought Experiment:

Say, Bill Gates (and other VIPs) is respected enough that he can convert 5 Skeptics out a 100 Climate Deniers. So, In order for the successful climate actions Bill Gates has to change the minds of say 10,000 leaders in various positions across the world. That means he effectively has to meet 200,000 people across the globe.

If Climate Change is important, and you want quick action, do you want Bill Gates (and others) to

a) jet around the globe and try to convince 200,000 people in 5 years

or

b) Bicycle around the globe and try to convince 200,000 people in 50 years

Only a moron would suggest (b). I expect TikTokers and Redditors to pick option (b) as they are easily swayed by "Hurr Durr, Bill Gates Jets" arguments.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#87

Post by sidewndr46 »

Riverheart wrote: post #78
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #46

This feels like a "terrorist/freedom-fighter" thing and so is effectively saying nothing. Like, Bill Gates accepts climate change is happening, that we should do something to avert the problems, and thinks that we can do that as a species. He thinks that renewables and EVs etc. will all help, but aren't enough and we should look for newer solutions. He has invested in multiple different solutions, presumably because…

Optimism usually sounds dumb because most people don't justify it well. It winds up sounding like marketing. All promise, no substance. A pessimist will generally provide right/wrong but specific reasons why it won't work out.

Blind optimism sounds like marketing. Actual optimism grounded in some sort of reality just sounds like regular conversation.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#88

Post by jackmott42 »

decremental wrote: post #81
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup... Do as you preach, and others will follow. Flying your private jet to a conference, and tell Johnny Average that he shouldn't use his car to drive to his workplace is a shitty thing to do. And he's far from being the only one doing that.

Similarly the vocal and rich advocates for climate change policy buying beachfront property on Martha's Vinyard. To say that these people are merely hypocrites is being too generous. They don't believe what they're saying at all.

Which advocates in particular? Why do you think buying a beach homes implies they don't believe what they are saying? Are you arriving at the most convenient conclusion for yourself, rather than the most likely one?

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#89

Post by elcamino44 »

raspberry1337 wrote: post #77
samatman wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dislike Gates for the old reasons, and some of the new ones as well. But this basic argument from hypocrisy is applied to a lot of people, and it's a weak case. If someone is using an appreciable fraction of their fortune to decarbonize the grid, and otherwise make industrial civilization sustainable, they can fly private jets as much as they like. Ultimately, carbon in the atmosphere is a simple game of addition.…

> Mohamed bin Sultan's jet travel? No? I believe I've made my point. Mohamed bin Sultan did not claim that polar bears might be dead by 2020 and that Florida will be under water by 2030, hence he can't be a hypocrite. Yes, hypocrisy can only be be applied to someone who claims something, argues for a certain something. The fact that everyone does not beleive in apocalyptic global warming destroying mankind by 2020 st…

Mohammed bin Salman’s public position is that global warming is real and dangerous and he has pledged that Saudi Arabia will be carbon neutral by 2060. I think if you wanted to make a case that he’s a hypocrite, there’s ample evidence out there.

But then the real question is why hypocrisy is so bad. All of us are hypocrites in different ways, on different things. Why is being a hypocrite on climate change worse than being wilfully ignorant?

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#90

Post by mikkergp »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #46

This feels like a "terrorist/freedom-fighter" thing and so is effectively saying nothing. Like, Bill Gates accepts climate change is happening, that we should do something to avert the problems, and thinks that we can do that as a species. He thinks that renewables and EVs etc. will all help, but aren't enough and we should look for newer solutions. He has invested in multiple different solutions, presumably because…

Believing climate change is happening isn’t pessimism though, neither are almost any of the other things you mentioned. Thinking a particular solution won’t work isn’t pessimism. Thinking all solutions won’t work or humans just aren’t capable of coming up with a solution therefore we shouldn’t bother trying is. What you seem to describing is what the author is railing against that is blind optimism.
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