Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pessimism is a barrier to progress

bigthink.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 189 posts

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#71

Post by pfdietz »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #46

This feels like a "terrorist/freedom-fighter" thing and so is effectively saying nothing. Like, Bill Gates accepts climate change is happening, that we should do something to avert the problems, and thinks that we can do that as a species. He thinks that renewables and EVs etc. will all help, but aren't enough and we should look for newer solutions. He has invested in multiple different solutions, presumably because…

Pessimism can be quite useful. In particular, it helps prune off unhelpful branches of search trees, so you can focus on more promising ones.

A very important part of solving problems is choosing the right problems. It doesn't help to be optimistic about something that's not going to work.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#72

Post by jacooper »

The reason is the news, period.

Nothing positive ever gets covered.

What you hear is: - the planet is getting worse - US centered News about how they banning something means the end of the world. - education is getting worse

And everything negative, because negativety gets you clicks, its an endless cycle because of algorithmic timelines.

While in reality education has massively improved and people are getting out of poverty faster.

A huge exception is the current news. Because of the Ukraine War, its obviously why is everyone is negative now, you hear about nuclear war risk, millions facing risk of famine because of wheat and food shortage, and many other things happening currently.

So I would say its understandable why everyone is so negative currently, but the negativity that existed before Covid is for sure, caused by News, which caused the divide in America which is unfortunately now spreading to other countries.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#73

Post by logisticpeach »

I occasionally struggle with issues around optimism/pessimism.

Working in a start-up I'm surrounded by others who are overwhelmingly optimistic (which is such a powerful bulwark against the brutal struggle, especially in the early days).

I try my best to be as positive as I can, but on reflection I'm probably a slight optimist, or neutral in my overall outlook.

I can't help feeling like some other team members see me as constantly dragging things down when I point out issues etc. I guess I can sometimes feel like a total pessimist when contrasted against individuals who are overwhelmingly optimistic, despite not in-fact having a tendency toward pessimism.

Maybe I'm a barrier to progress :)

It's a strange relativism that I only encounter in my work environment. In everyday life, I definitely don't feel pessimistic.

I wonder if, relatively speaking, the extreme blind optimist can make the more rational, reserved optimist seem negative by comparison. Gaining a good overall perspective is key I guess, although never easy.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#74

Post by samatman »

bamboozled wrote: post #61
id wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://twitter.com/GatesJets Hard to take Gates seriously on climate change. Imagine everyone was living like this.

This is amazing and really goes to show the dude, no matter how good his intentions may be, is a hypocrite. One rule for him, different rules for everyone else.

I dislike Gates for the old reasons, and some of the new ones as well.

But this basic argument from hypocrisy is applied to a lot of people, and it's a weak case.

If someone is using an appreciable fraction of their fortune to decarbonize the grid, and otherwise make industrial civilization sustainable, they can fly private jets as much as they like. Ultimately, carbon in the atmosphere is a simple game of addition. If Gates Brand nuclear plants take 100GW of coal and natural gas offline, I don't care if the man lives on an airplane with a whole second fleet for in-flight refueling, because it doesn't matter.

The reason the hypocrisy argument sucks is that, by definition, you can only apply it to rich people who see a problem with climate change and are doing something about it.

The many wealthy private-jet owners who are invested in fuel extraction don't even get mentioned. They get wealthy when carbon emissions get worse, and then spend their wealth jetting around.

Can you link me to the page which tracks Mohamed bin Sultan's jet travel? No? I believe I've made my point.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#75

Post by 6stringmerc »

In comparing my personal baseline optimism to others, I’m definitely on the “dreamer” side of the spectrum. Most people around me? Pessimistic by default. Some are wired that way, some seem to have been molded by education, family, and/or work.

It led me to this tongue in cheek thought:

Pessimists definitely played important roles in the early US space program, but it was optimists who suited up and believed they could make it there and back.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#76

Post by [deleted] »

jacooper wrote: post #72

The reason is the news, period. Nothing positive ever gets covered. What you hear is: - the planet is getting worse - US centered News about how they banning something means the end of the world. - education is getting worse And everything negative, because negativety gets you clicks, its an endless cycle because of algorithmic timelines. While in reality education has massively improved and people are getting out of…

[deleted]

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#77

Post by raspberry1337 »

samatman wrote: post #74
bamboozled wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is amazing and really goes to show the dude, no matter how good his intentions may be, is a hypocrite. One rule for him, different rules for everyone else.

I dislike Gates for the old reasons, and some of the new ones as well. But this basic argument from hypocrisy is applied to a lot of people, and it's a weak case. If someone is using an appreciable fraction of their fortune to decarbonize the grid, and otherwise make industrial civilization sustainable, they can fly private jets as much as they like. Ultimately, carbon in the atmosphere is a simple game of addition.…

> Mohamed bin Sultan's jet travel? No? I believe I've made my point.

Mohamed bin Sultan did not claim that polar bears might be dead by 2020 and that Florida will be under water by 2030, hence he can't be a hypocrite.

Yes, hypocrisy can only be be applied to someone who claims something, argues for a certain something. The fact that everyone does not beleive in apocalyptic global warming destroying mankind by 2020 still means that the people who do can be hypocrites.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#78

Post by Riverheart »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #46

This feels like a "terrorist/freedom-fighter" thing and so is effectively saying nothing. Like, Bill Gates accepts climate change is happening, that we should do something to avert the problems, and thinks that we can do that as a species. He thinks that renewables and EVs etc. will all help, but aren't enough and we should look for newer solutions. He has invested in multiple different solutions, presumably because…

Optimism usually sounds dumb because most people don't justify it well. It winds up sounding like marketing. All promise, no substance. A pessimist will generally provide right/wrong but specific reasons why it won't work out.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#79

Post by mistermann »

samatman wrote: post #74
bamboozled wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is amazing and really goes to show the dude, no matter how good his intentions may be, is a hypocrite. One rule for him, different rules for everyone else.

I dislike Gates for the old reasons, and some of the new ones as well. But this basic argument from hypocrisy is applied to a lot of people, and it's a weak case. If someone is using an appreciable fraction of their fortune to decarbonize the grid, and otherwise make industrial civilization sustainable, they can fly private jets as much as they like. Ultimately, carbon in the atmosphere is a simple game of addition.…

We may not be interested in metaphysics, but metaphysics may be interested in us.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#80

Post by raspberry1337 »

blooalien wrote: post #56
mupuff1234 wrote: post #19

> There's an "optimism stigma" that's pervasive throughout society. Funny, I'd say it's quite the opposite, you aren't allowed to say anything negative or you'd be labeled as a "downer". Everything nowadays is "amazing" and "transformative".

My own personal experience is that every single time I try to be positive about changing anything for the better in any way, the vast majority of humans I voice any "optimism" to are hell-bent on beating that "naïvety" out of me. The problem I see is that humanity as a whole has much of what we need to build a Utopia for all, but almost nobody actually wants a better world for anyone let alone for everyone. All the t…

>The problem I see is that humanity as a whole has much of what we need to build a Utopia for all, but almost nobody actually wants a better world for anyone let alone for everyone

Care to expand about what this Utopia would look like and how it would work? Where does the resources come from to bring everyone to a first world standard of living?

Post reply on HN