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Feds seized $311M in Bitcoin, then hacker stole it back

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Re: Feds seized $311M in Bitcoin, then hacker stole it back

#191

Post by api »

dale_glass wrote: post #186
api wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the more holes you patch… In protocols at least the solution is to design one that assumes a very hostile network and is inherently built for it. None of the old first generation Internet protocols are like that.

So for instance, Bitcoin? Yeah, it's not the worst out there, but it's far from layman friendly. That's already highly specialized territory.

There's a lot to dislike about cryptocurrency but in that department it does represent a newer generation of protocol that is designed for the modern "dark forest" Internet.

All protocols should be designed with the assumption that you will face a well financed adversary at least as smart as you are who wants to destroy what you are building. All protocol work is security protocol work. "The Internet is a dark forest."

Re: Feds seized $311M in Bitcoin, then hacker stole it back

#192

Post by pmontra »

hef19898 wrote: post #124
cyphertruck wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah the old “violence makes it moral” argument. The government cannot do those things under the law, but only by violating the laws. Problem is they have done it so much you think its not only legal, but moral! Innocent until proven guilty.

In democratic societies, the state has the monopoly on violence. This is, as opposed to totalitarian regimes, governed through laws passed by the people either directly or indirectly. Crypto or smart contracts do not circumvent those principals.

Any state, democratic or totalitarian, gives itself the monopoly on violence or there won't be a state, only factions vs factions, large and small ones down to single persons.

Re: Feds seized $311M in Bitcoin, then hacker stole it back

#193

Post by johnnymorgan »

inglor wrote: post #168
muricula wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran gets trotted out as a strawman in these arguments, but its government is really quite democratic compared to many US allies which have the mere trappings of democracy painted on a dictatorship. Iran has an elected president, and a parliament and multiple parties. As I understand it, the biggest issue with the government as a functioning democracy is that the unelected supreme council can prevent candidates from…

The thing that makes Iran not a democracy is that all those bodies (parliament, president, parties) answer to the supreme leader and religious authority. It’s not a democracy if the elected bodies all answer to unelected ones.

No post body was provided.

Re: Feds seized $311M in Bitcoin, then hacker stole it back

#194

Post by acdha »

johnnymorgan wrote: post #193
inglor wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that makes Iran not a democracy is that all those bodies (parliament, president, parties) answer to the supreme leader and religious authority. It’s not a democracy if the elected bodies all answer to unelected ones.

Quoted post unavailable.

Conflating the two is either incredibly dishonest or a sign that you’ve been listening to people who are. This kind of flamebait doesn’t lead to the kind of discussions people want on HN.

Re: Feds seized $311M in Bitcoin, then hacker stole it back

#195

Post by bo1024 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #109
bo1024 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Feds seize song 'Stairway To Heaven' from Florida Man, surprised to find him listening to it anyway". Point being, lawyers can pretend that information is property, but some things obey physical laws and other things don't. (edit) Maybe I'm being unclear, but your link defines seizure as "removes property from an individual's possession" and none of these terms apply here.

> lawyers can pretend that information is property, but some things obey physical laws and other things don't Free information is difficult to control. We have to add things to it, like DRM, to make it compatible with the legal concepts of possession and ownership. Crypto, however, is different. One can control it. Had the FBI been able to move the coins to their own wallet, they would have controlled them. Crypto is…

I don’t follow. If you record my https traffic to my banking website, do you now “own” my bank account? Did you “seize” it? Do you “possess” it? No, no, no. you have a copy of a pile of bits that are meaningless to you without my encryption keys. You don’t have anything new and you didn’t deprive me of anything either.

Re: Feds seized $311M in Bitcoin, then hacker stole it back

#197

Post by Quillbert182 »

automatic6131 wrote: post #180
once_inc wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have died for less. You are assuming everyone has the same kind of morals and ethics as yourself.

What's the point of 10k bitcoins if you can't buy you and your family a life free of the pain of being tortured by the government. Whose family is going to forgive them if they let their sons or daughters be mutilated and traumatised for the low, low price of 10k bitcoins? Idk you're suggesting the existence of a human that, while not impossible, must be vanishingly rare. Perhaps you don't really understand what tort…

There are people who have no one but themselves. It's much easier to imagine this when someone has no living relatives.

Re: Feds seized $311M in Bitcoin, then hacker stole it back

#199

Post by josefx »

johnnymorgan wrote: post #193
inglor wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that makes Iran not a democracy is that all those bodies (parliament, president, parties) answer to the supreme leader and religious authority. It’s not a democracy if the elected bodies all answer to unelected ones.

Quoted post unavailable.

Luckily the courts don't answer to it and most of the crazy is contained.

Re: Feds seized $311M in Bitcoin, then hacker stole it back

#200

Post by 988747 »

dale_glass wrote: post #182
988747 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does not make it OK. The proper solution is one or both of: - Make laws so simple that a layman can understand them, thus removing the need for professional lawyers, and their exorbitant fees. - Have prosecution be equally well funded as a defendant.

Laws start simple. Eg, Code of Hammurabi. Then they get complicated as we run into more and more edge cases that need handling. In good measure laws get complicated because simple laws get worked around and abused. We see this in tech too. Email is a simple concept that's grown into a highly specialized territory because spammers will exploit everything they can, and the more holes you patch, the more complex the sys…

> In good measure laws get complicated because simple laws get worked around and abused.

I can quote tax laws as counterexample. A rule like "you pay 2% of your revenue as a tax" is simple and pretty hard to abuse. A rule like "Take your revenue, subtract expenses (see this 250-page document for list of allowed expenses and the rules when then apply), and pay 20% of your remaining income as tax" gives a lot of room to interpretation and abuse.

Governments make laws complicated because that gives them power - it's pretty much impossible to live in a Western country right now and not break some laws on daily basis.

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