Live data from Hacker News

Pessimism is a barrier to progress

bigthink.com

41–50 of 189 posts

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#41
About a month ago back I saw an HN submission titled "Just What Is It That Makes Today’s Homes So Different, So Appealing?"

And it made me do a double-take, because the positivity of it was so unexpected, almost shocking. And indeed it wasn't made recently, rather it was from 1956.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#42
post #25

Optimism and Pessimism are viewed very differently in different Countries (Germany vs USA) and even Regions (Silicon Valley vs idk Utah). Apart from that I think the article is mostly wrong. To make progress you need agency and self-confidence. The effects of Optimism and Pessimism are very context-dependent. Just one example: A very driven and confident pessimist might be much more motivated to find a solution for C…

The article talks not about "personal" optimism/pessimism, but about a social one. It compares an optimistic society with a pessimistic one. What this choice brings to a society?

> A very driven and confident pessimist might be much more motivated to find a solution for Climate Change, because he knows for sure otherwise Earth is Doomed.

Not so driven pessimists might tell that it is a waste of time, because Earth is Doomed.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#44
post #42
post #25

Optimism and Pessimism are viewed very differently in different Countries (Germany vs USA) and even Regions (Silicon Valley vs idk Utah). Apart from that I think the article is mostly wrong. To make progress you need agency and self-confidence. The effects of Optimism and Pessimism are very context-dependent. Just one example: A very driven and confident pessimist might be much more motivated to find a solution for C…

The article talks not about "personal" optimism/pessimism, but about a social one. It compares an optimistic society with a pessimistic one. What this choice brings to a society? > A very driven and confident pessimist might be much more motivated to find a solution for Climate Change, because he knows for sure otherwise Earth is Doomed. Not so driven pessimists might tell that it is a waste of time, because Earth is…

Yes of course! What I'm saying is that neither is better in all contexts. There's a lot of nuance.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#45
Wow, there's a lot of labeling and stereotyping going on in the article and comments. I think there's too much absolutism going on about pessimists and optimists - it's really a continuous range that shouldn't be applied as absolutes.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#46
This feels like a "terrorist/freedom-fighter" thing and so is effectively saying nothing.

Like, Bill Gates accepts climate change is happening, that we should do something to avert the problems, and thinks that we can do that as a species. He thinks that renewables and EVs etc. will all help, but aren't enough and we should look for newer solutions. He has invested in multiple different solutions, presumably because he thinks some will be needed but not all will work.

So he's a pessimist, pessimist, optimist, optimist, pessimist, optimist, optimist/pessimist. And that's one person on one idea.

I agree with some of his opinions and methods, but disagree with others. I don't mind him investing in nuclear things, I just wish he'd tone down his 'pessimism' about renewables when pitching them because overall I think that is unhelpful, untrue and unnecessary.

He gets many of his downer talking points from Vaclav Smil, who is a grumpy pessimist about both the science and politics of climate change and I think personifies the "Pessimism sounds smart. Optimism sounds dumb" idea.

But does that mean "pessimism" is bad in the abstract? I don't think so.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#47

> There's an "optimism stigma" that's pervasive throughout society. Funny, I'd say it's quite the opposite, you aren't allowed to say anything negative or you'd be labeled as a "downer". Everything nowadays is "amazing" and "transformative".

Soo maybe it's neither and just heavily dependent on a) the social circles you are a part of, and b) your personal bias towards pessimism/optimism?

It's pure speculation, but it feels much more plausible than a society wide bias towards one or the other.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#48

This is why I worry about the doomerism, especially by young people, I see online so often. Thankfully, stepping out of the bubbles that are Twitter and Reddit, it's not nearly as common to see in the real world. Just one more reason not to (unproductively) use these platforms.

But muh perfectly predictable catastrophe a moderately intelligent twelve year old could see coming and that we could avoid by just not doing that, that we're blundering into because our short-term and long-term incentives are not well aligned, that will destroy the world without a shadow of a doubt!

For real. So much of their thought process is predicated on wanting to tear down entirely the system and build something new, without even considering why it's like that in the first place. It leads me to think they don't have much real world experience, which, being young people, is accurate. It's the societal version of Chesterton's fence.

Re: Pessimism is a barrier to progress

#50

This feels like a "terrorist/freedom-fighter" thing and so is effectively saying nothing. Like, Bill Gates accepts climate change is happening, that we should do something to avert the problems, and thinks that we can do that as a species. He thinks that renewables and EVs etc. will all help, but aren't enough and we should look for newer solutions. He has invested in multiple different solutions, presumably because…

> This feels like a "terrorist/freedom-fighter" thing

Exactly. The author is stapling all the good qualities onto optimism and all the bad ones onto pessimism so that he can declare one good and the other bad.

I'm optimistic we can have a more meaningful conversation about optimism and pessimism if we forget this article.

Post reply on HN