Feds seized $311M in Bitcoin, then hacker stole it back

Post by fritztastic » Wed, Oct 05, 2022, 9:57 AM UTC

cyphertruck wrote: post #121

jonas21 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, those are the reporter's words, not the prosecutor's. If you read the indictment [1], the word "remotely" never appears, and it's pretty clear the prosecutors understand how Bitcoin works. If anyone's clueless here, it's Gary Harmon, who showed up at his brother's court hearing, learned that the government had not yet secured the Bitcoin that it legally had a right to, then almost immediately moved that Bitcoin t…

Government had bo legal right to the bitcoin. Innocent until proven guilty, means the government stole the bitcoin in a criminal attempt to deny him an adequate defense. You can’t “steal” your own property. The government agents involved are all felons under 18 U.S. Code § 241. Conspiracy against rights - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/241 and 18 U.S. Code § 242. Deprivation of rights under color of law -…

Post by hef19898 » Wed, Oct 05, 2022, 10:02 AM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #167

ngcc_hk wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a spectrum. USA and eu might be. But if someone above you can prevent your from running or electing then it is NOT democracy. Once you are free to do so then may I say no one promise heaven on earth. It is bad human and good in democracy. Sort it out. It is hard. But it is not the same as other sort it out for you.

By your own definition, pretty much no countries, including the US, are democracies, as almost everywhere has mechanisms through which the courts can prevent you from running.

Post by quickthrower2 » Wed, Oct 05, 2022, 10:05 AM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #167

ngcc_hk wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a spectrum. USA and eu might be. But if someone above you can prevent your from running or electing then it is NOT democracy. Once you are free to do so then may I say no one promise heaven on earth. It is bad human and good in democracy. Sort it out. It is hard. But it is not the same as other sort it out for you.

By your own definition, pretty much no countries, including the US, are democracies, as almost everywhere has mechanisms through which the courts can prevent you from running.

Post by iudqnolq » Wed, Oct 05, 2022, 10:09 AM UTC

tomohawk wrote: post #156

iudqnolq wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it your (incorrect) reading of 241 is that when the government securely holds your property pending the final outcome of your trial that violates the clause of 241 that forbids a conspiracy to "injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person". If that was true detaining a person would be a much more serious violation than detaining your property. Now I happen to believe that pretrial detention is…

On the other hand, feds routinely seize defendants assets to prevent them from being able to pay for robust legal defense. Those assets aren't going to harm anyone, so the case for seizing them is much weaker than holding someone accused of violence in jail. In this specific case, the assets are alleged ill-gotten gains, but often that is not the case at all. It doesn't seem to be a stretch that the feds "securely ho…

Post by alasdair_ » Wed, Oct 05, 2022, 10:19 AM UTC

inglor wrote: post #168

muricula wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran gets trotted out as a strawman in these arguments, but its government is really quite democratic compared to many US allies which have the mere trappings of democracy painted on a dictatorship. Iran has an elected president, and a parliament and multiple parties. As I understand it, the biggest issue with the government as a functioning democracy is that the unelected supreme council can prevent candidates from…

The thing that makes Iran not a democracy is that all those bodies (parliament, president, parties) answer to the supreme leader and religious authority. It’s not a democracy if the elected bodies all answer to unelected ones.