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Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

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Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#161

Post by tsimionescu »

jjcon wrote: post #85
avidphantasm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess they think their computer vision and AI can catch up to and exceed the visual processing capabilities of vertebrates with their millions of years of evolution. I think they are wrong. Multi-media sensor data fusion is the only sane path for the foreseeable future, in my lay opinion.

>an catch up to and exceed the visual processing capabilities of vertebrates with their millions of years of evolution I mean tons of technology outperforms humans by a mile... plenty of other computer vision systems already outperform people so not sure why Tesla would be exempt here due to 'evolution'.

We don't have any computer vision system that outperforms mammals, let alone humans, at general vision, Tesla or not - especially on real 3D vision. We do have computer systems that outperform humans at extremely specialized tasks, such as facial recognition in photos.

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#162

Post by justapassenger »

jaimex2 wrote: post #158
STRML wrote: post #22

There are multiple tells that this move, just like the removal of radar, is supply-chain and cost-driven and not actually driven by engineering. If this were a planned move, the software would already be ready to replace it. It is not. Cars without radar still aren't at parity with the car that have it, although they "fixed" this a few weeks back by simply turning off the radar on the older cars. The parking sensors…

Not really, both USS and Radar give unreliable output. The cars you mention would all have phantom beeping from the USS and unreliable adaptive cruise where the radar suddenly doesn't see the car ahead. The Tesla vision on the other hand works like a more focused human driver. It can remember that wheel stop is there. Agree they shouldn't have jumped the gun with production till it was ready though. While the USS sen…

Vision also gives you unreliable output. Real world is messy and hard - sensor fusion and dealing with unreliable data is bread and butter.

No one said it’s easy to build that stuff. Well, no one expect for Elon Musk to be more precise.

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#164

Post by mgraupner »

ericd wrote: post #119
davewritescode wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person who’s owned some luxury cars in their life, going from a BMW to a Model3 feels like a really big downgrade in so many ways. I can give a list of reasons why I didn’t buy an M3P at the time but quality, lack of repair options and really shitty interior topped the list. Not having carplay/android auto or satellite radio were minor but still annoying in a car that cost so much money.

We've had the complete opposite experience with our BMW->Tesla move. Sure, the BMW had a very nice interior, that complaint gets a tons of play online, and it's not inaccurate. But you know what just blows that away? Getting into a car on a 100 degree day, and instead of scorching my skin on the leather, like I would with our old BMW, the seat is cold because I tapped a button on my phone 5 minutes before when we wer…

You should give the new BMW i4 a test, it's probably a much better car than the BMW you had. Built quality of BMW combined with the advantages of an electric car without the "features" of Elon Musk as discussed in here.

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#165

Post by justapassenger »

ajross wrote: post #136
STRML wrote: post #22

There are multiple tells that this move, just like the removal of radar, is supply-chain and cost-driven and not actually driven by engineering. If this were a planned move, the software would already be ready to replace it. It is not. Cars without radar still aren't at parity with the car that have it, although they "fixed" this a few weeks back by simply turning off the radar on the older cars. The parking sensors…

So... your first sentence is very likely true. But it doesn't match your argument two paragraphs down: > The cheapest bargain-bin cars have this feature. Your $100k+ Model S or X will not. If cheap "bargain-bin" cars have these things, then there is no supply chain problem. In fact it's likely these parts aren't available in quantity anywhere right now and every manufacturer is having to deal with it. It's just not n…

It’s not a news, because Ford doesn’t sell supply chain shenanigans as a feature. Tesla does, multiple times already.

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#166

Post by saiya-jin »

Qworg wrote: post #62
aeternum wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the removal of radar, they showed some pretty convincing data that the radar was too noisy to be useful, especially with discriminating things like highway overpasses vs. stopped cars. They showed that vision could already outperform radar. With these parking sensors it's different. They have no current alternative and it will cause a pretty significant loss of functionality. Disappointing move.

I'd love to see the convincing data RE: radar - they're using the same radars as every other car that has emergency braking from the car in front of the car that's in front of you. I've not heard of many "phantom braking" sessions from these other vehicles - I may have missed something.

Not braking per se, but on all cars I've driven recently (ie some Seat Alteca, our BMW F10 5-series and maybe 2 more a bit longer ago) there is sometimes collision warning in situation where no collision is about to happen.

Seat was pretty bad in this, had it rented for 2 weeks in Sicily few weeks ago and first few times all screens start flashing like crazy in normal situations is very distracting (since I wasn't sure what the heck is happening, but it looked sinister). BMW is pretty subtle with this, and only happened few times in past year.

I imagine if this warning system would be also connected to breaks, bad things would be happening.

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#167

Post by 01100011 »

Does anyone else think they're running out of compute power on their DL computer and trying to eliminate sensor fusion in order to preserve precious cycles for vision processing?

I've long wondered if TSLA screwed up by choosing the hardware before fully solving the problem, leaving millions of vehicles incapable of performing safe FSD without HW upgrades.

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#168

Post by luckydata »

STRML wrote: post #22

There are multiple tells that this move, just like the removal of radar, is supply-chain and cost-driven and not actually driven by engineering. If this were a planned move, the software would already be ready to replace it. It is not. Cars without radar still aren't at parity with the car that have it, although they "fixed" this a few weeks back by simply turning off the radar on the older cars. The parking sensors…

just a mention that I have a Model 3 with USS and it can't detect low obstacles like concrete stops either.

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#169

Post by flutas »

valine wrote: post #121
bearjaws wrote: post #101

This will absolutely not work, I have FSD and it messes up distance of large well defined objects, think about how this will work with a concrete wall, or curbs that it can probably no longer see. When I pull into my garage sometimes it recognizes my shelf as a car ON FSD....

The output of the “occupancy network” isn’t displayed to the user right now. It doesn’t do classification, it’s just raw voxels. The real bummer is that without ultra sonics the car can’t see the ground in front of it. Hopefully tesla adds a bumper camera.

> The output of the “occupancy network” isn’t displayed to the user right now.

I may be mis-understanding, or experiencing something else but I think it is if you're on FSD. It shows up as grey (elevated) regions around the visuals, not the standard "not a road" grey. The gates for my community began showing up in this update with it, but they look like about 2-3ft tall triangles, not a gate... though still recognized I guess?

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#170

Post by jaimex2 »

justapassenger wrote: post #162
jaimex2 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, both USS and Radar give unreliable output. The cars you mention would all have phantom beeping from the USS and unreliable adaptive cruise where the radar suddenly doesn't see the car ahead. The Tesla vision on the other hand works like a more focused human driver. It can remember that wheel stop is there. Agree they shouldn't have jumped the gun with production till it was ready though. While the USS sen…

Vision also gives you unreliable output. Real world is messy and hard - sensor fusion and dealing with unreliable data is bread and butter. No one said it’s easy to build that stuff. Well, no one expect for Elon Musk to be more precise.

That last thing you want is two systems arguing about what they see.

Also its lame to downvote for disagreeing.

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