Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#151

Post by langsoul-com » Wed, Oct 05, 2022, 5:33 AM UTC

avidphantasm wrote: post #18

sxates wrote: post #12

Cars delivered today without USS will not have: "Park Assist: alerts you of surrounding objects when the vehicle is traveling This is the most basic feature that almost every car has had for years - but not your $60k Model Y. Why can't they wait to remove sensors until they've achieved feature parity with the vision only system? This seems crazy. I don't really understand the push to do everything through the cameras…

I guess they think their computer vision and AI can catch up to and exceed the visual processing capabilities of vertebrates with their millions of years of evolution. I think they are wrong. Multi-media sensor data fusion is the only sane path for the foreseeable future, in my lay opinion.

Nah I think it's a logistics and cost thing. Adding several extra sensors dramatically increases the complexity of logistics, building the car and the overall costs.

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#152

Post by hef19898 » Wed, Oct 05, 2022, 5:35 AM UTC

vl wrote: post #93

martin_a wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla reached a mere 1.5% share of new cars in August 2022 in Germany. They are far away from "outselling" all the others.

Germany car marked is skewed towards Germany carmakers. Apart from obvious reasons, car leases through employers are only for German cars.

While there is a preference for VW group in the corporate leasing market, theybare far from the only ones. Your first argument doesn't make any sense whatsoever so.

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#153

Post by throwawaylinux » Wed, Oct 05, 2022, 5:36 AM UTC

STRML wrote: post #22

There are multiple tells that this move, just like the removal of radar, is supply-chain and cost-driven and not actually driven by engineering. If this were a planned move, the software would already be ready to replace it. It is not. Cars without radar still aren't at parity with the car that have it, although they "fixed" this a few weeks back by simply turning off the radar on the older cars. The parking sensors…

In what world is cost and supply chain not engineering?!?

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#154

Post by aetherspawn » Wed, Oct 05, 2022, 5:40 AM UTC

icelancer wrote: post #103

Qworg wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to see the convincing data RE: radar - they're using the same radars as every other car that has emergency braking from the car in front of the car that's in front of you. I've not heard of many "phantom braking" sessions from these other vehicles - I may have missed something.

I got a ton of phantom braking just two weeks ago when I rented a 2020 Toyota Corolla with this feature. I've also gotten it in a 2019 Tesla Model 3, of course.

Anecdotally I've been driving a 2020 Toyota Corolla Hybrid for around 2 years now and haven't ever experienced phantom braking. I have driven it all around Australia (Melbourne, Sydney, Coffs, Brisbane) and the driver assist features have been nothing except rock solid reliable.

I have noticed though that it is very timid when people are leaving their lane, and it takes a few seconds to decide that a car has fully left its lane. It will brake as though the car is still in your lane well after it is gone. I'm not sure I'm going to hold it against Toyota, because I'd prefer it to be timid in case the other driver does something unpredictable like change their mind. If you press the accelerator pedal lightly when you notice someone leaving the road, the software will cancel out the braking.

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#155

Post by mgraupner » Wed, Oct 05, 2022, 5:42 AM UTC

vl wrote: post #93

martin_a wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla reached a mere 1.5% share of new cars in August 2022 in Germany. They are far away from "outselling" all the others.

Germany car marked is skewed towards Germany carmakers. Apart from obvious reasons, car leases through employers are only for German cars.

"Car leases trough employers are only for German cars" - that is not true, as a German company you can lease whatever car you want for your employees. They are predominantly German cars for the obvious reasons. :)

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#156

Post by ultrahax » Wed, Oct 05, 2022, 5:42 AM UTC

When parking in tight spaces, getting exact-distance feedback from the ultrasonic sensors is pretty handy. I can't see how vision will replace that; I don't think any of the cameras can see that close to the bumper.

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#157

Post by fh973 » Wed, Oct 05, 2022, 5:46 AM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #126

sxates wrote: post #12

Cars delivered today without USS will not have: "Park Assist: alerts you of surrounding objects when the vehicle is traveling This is the most basic feature that almost every car has had for years - but not your $60k Model Y. Why can't they wait to remove sensors until they've achieved feature parity with the vision only system? This seems crazy. I don't really understand the push to do everything through the cameras…

Pardon me for being out of touch, but cars park themselves now? That's pretty neat

My 10 year old VW Touran can do it reliably, with only ultrasonic sensors.

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#158

Post by jaimex2 » Wed, Oct 05, 2022, 5:47 AM UTC

STRML wrote: post #22

There are multiple tells that this move, just like the removal of radar, is supply-chain and cost-driven and not actually driven by engineering. If this were a planned move, the software would already be ready to replace it. It is not. Cars without radar still aren't at parity with the car that have it, although they "fixed" this a few weeks back by simply turning off the radar on the older cars. The parking sensors…

Not really, both USS and Radar give unreliable output. The cars you mention would all have phantom beeping from the USS and unreliable adaptive cruise where the radar suddenly doesn't see the car ahead.

The Tesla vision on the other hand works like a more focused human driver. It can remember that wheel stop is there.

Agree they shouldn't have jumped the gun with production till it was ready though.

While the USS sensors are crap they probably should keep them for things like small children playing behind cars.

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#159

Post by justapassenger » Wed, Oct 05, 2022, 5:52 AM UTC

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #139

dagmx wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is probably the WORST at automatic parking. Here’s a comparison against some other competitors. https://youtu.be/nsb2XBAIWyA My own model Y has maybe successfully automatically parked 2/10 times. Most of my friends and coworkers have similarly low success rates.

I'm surprised the they pulled out an older Tesla and that parked quite well after all the duds.

Old Tesla was using mobileye systems, that powers half of the automotive world. Tesla later started to abuse it, mobileye got angry and they stopped working together. Since then Tesla's tech is in house and in many aspects still behind 10 years old product.

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#160

Post by KerrAvon » Wed, Oct 05, 2022, 5:53 AM UTC

dahfizz wrote: post #94

LightG wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These all look like push factors and are serious enough on their own. But I don't even need them. I'm pulled by Hyundai. Their recent design language has me and I'd argue they have the better all around packages. Personally, Telsa aren't even the top dog anymore. It'll take time for others to see it.

I agree that Hyundai is killing it, and I will seriously consider the ioniq 6 when it is available. However, I don't think you can discount Tesla here. They produce ~ 5x more model 3's than Hyundai can produce ioniq 5's. And the Tesla battery / motor specs are much better. I don't see any real competition for Tesla at their price point, specs, and production capabilities. Which is frustrating, because I want an EV bu…

Which price point? Lots of non-Tesla EVs selling for a wide range of price points right now.

Totally with you on the Ioniq 6 — very attractive, and will have better service options should something go wrong. Would also consider Polestar 2. Maybe the Ford Mustang Mach-E. Maybe.