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Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

yarn.pranshum.com

181–190 of 550 posts

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#181

Is there a historic precedent for Quantitive Easing? Is there a historic precedent for Quantitive Tightening? We have been at it since 2008 that means there is little historic data to draw any preemption from, we are on unchartered waters at this point.

QE and QT aren't really anything new. They're mostly just modernish terms given to old ways of doing things.

What is unprecedented is hitting 0% interest rates nearly everywhere worldwide. When things hit this point, economies are forced to deleverage, to which economists refer to as an 'economic deleveraging'. National economies have gone through deleveragings in the past, and has so far played out in 3-4 ways:

-a period of high inflation (which sometimes lead to the collapse of the currency)

-a period of deflation (either via a bear market, or a rapid crash)

-a long period of almost 0 economic growth (stagnation - AKA 'the soft landing').

-some degree and combination of the above 3 scenarios.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#182
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that there is lots of data that shows your version has some merit, but that doesn't mean it's 100% correct. I know of at least one instance where your version was incorrect(2008/2009). Again, I'm not arguing my version is correct, and I'm not even arguing that your version is completely wrong, because we literally do not know. Read some John Cochrane[0] if you want a more academic defence of my version(which…

> I know of at least one instance where your version was incorrect(2008/2009). One one hand, we have thousands of years of history with what causes inflation. On the other hand, we have one instance. I'd say one has to examine the one counterexample for something missed. (Your cite makes no mention of 2008/2009.) Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Recall my other post here about how making loans cre…

> (Your cite makes no mention of 2008/2009.)

Incorrect: "One may look to politicians’ statements. Even in the Obama-era “stimulus” spending, the administration emphasized promises of eventual debt reduction. " And I have more to say on it later.

My cite is from a world-class economist, not from some random person on the Internet.

> One one hand, we have thousands of years of history with what causes inflation. > On the other hand, we have one instance.

Again, you are assuming facts not in evidence, you assume your version of reality is correct, likely because that is what economics text books taught you, because they also assumed it to be the case, these assumptions do not make it true.

Perhaps those thousands of years of history actually agree with my version also. We don't know what people were thinking across those thousands of years of inflation history, it's possible they were thinking our governments(such as they were) were not trusted to pay it back, as generally speaking, governments that go on large spending sprees tend to not pay it back very well. It's hard to be disciplined with money when there is very little incentive to politicians while in office.

There is no rigorous proof of what causes inflation. There are many well-educated guesses and your perspective was the common wisdom for a long time. That doesn't make it true, no matter how much you want it to be.

I'm pretty sure my version is also wrong, but it's at least an interesting perspective rather than "money printers go brrr inflation then always happens".

> Recall my other post here about how making loans creates money, and paying the loans back destroys it.

I don't agree with the second part of this sentence. I completely agree that the banks create money out of thin air when they decide to loan you $100k. But if you pay it back, more money is created as part of the interest payments on that $100k. If you don't pay it back:

> Bankruptcy destroys money.

True.

> I wonder if all the bankruptcies, defaults, haircuts and writedowns removed a vast amount of money from circulation, and the deficit spending simply filled that hole rather than creating more inflation.

The US government made money on it[0]. I'm almost positive there is essentially a zero percent chance of making any of the trillions we spent in 2020 back. We have to pay all that borrowing off somehow, either we raise taxes or we inflate it away. It seems like we are on the inflation train version for now at least.

Though perhaps your comment is also partially true, there was some bankruptcies(one might argue not enough). A quick web search didn't turn up any good data on the amount(s) though and I'm to lazy to do more research on it, but if you have done some, I'd be interested.

0: https://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/2017-01-19/finan...

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banks loan out a multiple of their deposits. In other words, banks create money when they make loans. Amazing, isn't it? I've heard about that, and it's really amazing. If i understand it correctly, the loan interest i have to pay is money that also does not exist yet, at the point of time, when i get the cash. The bank faces the risk of me not being able to generate (get from others, who potentially also take loan…

> What instance decides, if some printed money does or does not have collateral? A great question. No actual decision is made, it's just that there are more dollars floating chasing the same value, so the price in dollars gets bid up.

This is misleading.

There is a 'decision' made and there is always collateral - at the bank, and even at the Fed.

The 'decision' that might be made, is what kind of assets to accept on the Feds balance sheet.

At a private bank, they can do whatever they want with respect to what kind of assets they accept as collateral, within regulatory requirements. They have capital ratios to uphold, but if they take stupid risks, well they are going to go out of business.

The OP is implying that money is printed out of thin air and that is not what is happening.

Your retort that 'money money, in a system of all other things being equal, will raise prices' - but the implication of 'all other things being equal' is never a reality. Economies are usually growing, in which case, they need more money to keep prices from going down actually, and, there can be external shocks, which we see every decade or so.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#184
post #21

> But if the main driver of inflation is the demand side, or inflation expectations, history indicates that a painful recession could be the only way to curb inflation. That's certainly the expected path forward, at least in the circles I associate with. "When the tide goes out, you find out who's swimming naked" seems a reasonable guess as to what's going to happen. Both at larger bank/investment firm scale and at t…

>That does imply that you might consider some backup energy solutions for the winter. I'm a fan of kerosene lately. Less annoying to use than propane, and stores almost as well. By backup you mean for heating? Can you safely burn kerosene indoors? I thought you would have all sort of pollutants on top of monoxide?

"Safely" is relative, but here in Japan kerosene heaters are totally normal in older homes.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#185
post #134

It may also help to see the cumulative inflation picture: https://totalrealreturns.com/s/USDOLLAR?normalize=end (disclosure: my side project) The 1974 and 1980 peaks from the article correspond to the steeper slope regions in those same years on my graph. (I'm plotting 1/[CPI-U price level], while the article is plotting d/dt [CPI-U price level]) On my y-axis is the purchasing power of a US dollar, relative to curren…

Yeah but that’s not the whole picture… in 1962 the ford truck was $2000 now is around 40,000 so while a new one is better you still have to earn 2x as much to get the most basic one available

They also last much longer

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kind of a misunderstanding. Banks retain assets for loans they make. They don't print money. But imagine this scenario: you deposit $10 at bank A, they loan that $10 to person B, that person B puts their $10 account at Bank C, thank bank loans out that $10 to person D etc.. You can see all of a sudden, $10 turns into $100! or $1000 in assets! So what we require banks to do is keep a part of the assets they re…

> They don't print money. Oh, absolutely they do. That's why currency is called "banknotes". The banks printed them. Each bank printed their own banknotes. You can find their images in numismatics books. In 1914, the government took over the function of printing banknotes. But the banks still print money. We just call them "cashier's checks", "money orders" and "travelers' checks". But more normally, they simply cred…

Listen, you are really confusing yourself and others here.

That banks used to print notes in the past is not relevant in this discussion, when we talk about 'printing money' what we are referring to is how money comes into circulation. Physical bank notes are barely relevant to the equation as it makes up a tiny portion of the money supply, and of course, they are only printed by the Central Bank.

Money comes into circulation when the Central Bank 'buys' TBills off the free market. That's when the Central Bank 'creates' money.

Then, through fractional lending, a considerably larger amount of money ends up getting into the system by way of accounting.

Finally, the 'credit market' - which is really 10x bigger than even money in circulation, and which is the real thing that matters in business, develops like a bubble on top of that.

"That isn't inflation, because extra dollars are not being created."

Yes - it is 100% inflation and you are absolutely spreading false information at that point.

The 'result' could be as simple as 'less of that product is bought' - meaning, we use 'less gas' when gas prices rise - while every other aspect of the economy remains mostly the same. That is 100% inflation.

Aside from 'buying less of the product with price increase' or 'buying less of other stuff' we can also borrow, use savings, buy on credit etc. to adjust for the price inflation - so it's not going to necessarily work out to be some kind of net price levelling in the economy.

Increasing prices = inflation [1]. That's it. It's not necessarily related to money supply.

And finally - as the economy expands, more money needs to be introduced into the system just to keep prices even. This is an example of where there is more money supply and it does not change prices.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#187

In California, people fitting certain economic criteria are now being issued $1000 checks for inflation relief. This is beyond ludicrous. We have printed so much money, the only solution is to... print more? It's almost like it is all a sneaky backdoor to letting the government redistribute wealth without real oversight...

Distributing more money is almost certainly unproductive. During Covid large checks were mailed out. Reddit was full of 'casual investors' throwing money at meme stocks that explained it was 'covid money' and thus didn't matter much to them. Student loan debt forgiveness is the latest madness. The end result? Those with the least money (the poor, and those on fixed incomes) are totally hosed. If you can't afford rent…

> The end result? Those with the least money (the poor, and those on fixed incomes) are totally hosed. If you can't afford rent at $800, you surely can't afford it at $1400. More handouts only make the problem worse.

That's absurd; while a one-off is nowhere near as good as a basic income, a flat "handout" benefits the poor for obvious reasons (at the expense of the rich; there's no free lunch).

> The Fed's response (raising interest rates) will make cars and houses out of reach for many.

Buying cars and houses with money you don't have and hoping you can make up for it in the future is something we never should've normalised. Someone preaching "fiscal responsibility" should see this as a good thing.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#188
post #74

In California, people fitting certain economic criteria are now being issued $1000 checks for inflation relief. This is beyond ludicrous. We have printed so much money, the only solution is to... print more? It's almost like it is all a sneaky backdoor to letting the government redistribute wealth without real oversight...

Given that California can't print money, why do you think those checks are "printing money"? And no, it's not a "sneaky backdoor". It's the government doing what it should do, tighten financial inequality gaps. And preventing unnecessary suffering. We're still a society, we occasionally take care of the weaker people amongst us. (Frankly, not often enough) And "without real oversight" is... you're aware this is going…

They may not be printing money, but they are propping up inflation by giving people free money for compensating for inflation.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#189
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carter didn't deregulate the gas, which was a huge drag on the economy as everyone had to wait hours in line for gas. > Reagan switched to a deficit-based fiscalized economy, That was caused by the Democrat-controlled Congress. Reagan tried to get a balanced budget, and Congress stymied him every time. > hollowed out manufacturing, and channeled cash upwards towards the wealthy. That's just propaganda. > “breaking aw…

> “breaking away” is a fictional movie. Please use factual references. I'm thinking of my friends who didn't go to university, or got their GED at 16, and have struggled as their factory jobs went away.

The economy has been on a long term trend of requiring more and more training since the start of the Industrial Revolution.

Reagan's two terms saw explosive growth in the computer and software industry.

If you're suggesting that Reagan should have tried protectionism, I suggest it is about as effective as the sanctions put on Russia & Iran to boost their economies.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#190
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concern over US natural gas supply is not warranted. At all. If producers decided not to produce during a period of high prices (unlikely), we have gas in storage, right now, to last through the typical winter. https://ir.eia.gov/ngs/ngs.html (unfortunately, export capacity is a rounding error, so we can't do a whole lot to help Europe out. https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_move_expc_s1_a.htm )

> Concern over US natural gas supply is not warranted. At all. How'd that work for Texas a couple winters ago? Or a decade ago? Supply is more than just what's in the ground - it's the entire infrastructure related to delivering it to the various loads, and we've demonstrated at various points that it's not in as good of shape as people like to assume. Also, someone is literally blowing up pipelines over in Europe. D…

Texas is a broken theocracy.

Cold places have pretty robust gas infrastructure, but cannot grow it because of the green people with gas heat who want all new installs to be heat pumps.

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