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The Full Chess Cheating Report of Hans Neiman

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Re: The Full Chess Cheating Report of Hans Neiman

#111

Post by bombcar »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #78
LgWoodenBadger wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From personal experience, there’s nothing “good” poker players hate more than losing to a “bad” poker player who “shouldn’t have even been in the band.”

Especially in this era of GTO kinda taking over poker mindshare, it's important to remember that poker games happen in a context and something like Game Theory is really only applicable when you can fully account for everyone's subjective ordering of utility of outcomes. I played in a weekly game back during the early 00's poker boom, where one guy that showed up pretty clearly just wanted to get away from his wife a…

I played a very small amount in the early heyday of the fad around the 00s and since I didn’t know what I was doing other players really didn’t like me, because I wasn’t predictable.

Re: The Full Chess Cheating Report of Hans Neiman

#112

Post by fastball »

taylorportman wrote: post #97

I learned chess late and enjoy playing it, through mistakes, at a different pace... so, in spite of the numerous headlines, I don't get it. Competitively, cheating should be meaningless - and/else what kind of society has people playing chess for food? Perhaps I should read the article. current mood, tipsy

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Re: The Full Chess Cheating Report of Hans Neiman

#114

Post by chucksmash »

Lerc wrote: post #99
chucksmash wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the list of other confessed GM cheaters has this same qualifier of "is a super GM" or "is ranked above 2700," however. Grandmaster rank is achieved via a peak Elo of 2500 plus gaining two grandmaster norms[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmaster_(chess)#Current_re...

https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2093596 says Hans Niemann has a rating of 2699 You were replying to a comment that said "Anonymous Confessed GM"s on the cheating list, most of them with a rating much higher than Neimann's.

That qualification is true of Hans Niemann's Elo given in the table - at the time of the chess.com cheating - of 2465, when he was an IM with a single GM norm.

The highest rated "Anonymous Confessed GM" in this table in the report is a 2686 Elo.

Re: The Full Chess Cheating Report of Hans Neiman

#115

Post by gammarator »

JshWright wrote: post #29
crystaln wrote: post #20

Seems to be happening in the poker world as well. https://twitter.com/dexerto/status/1575867098328289280

What next, competitive fishing?

… actually yes, if you haven’t seen it: https://www.npr.org/2022/10/03/1126570725/fish-weights-walle...

Re: The Full Chess Cheating Report of Hans Neiman

#116

Post by maegul »

zeven7 wrote: post #80
maegul wrote: post #5

So page 9 from the last paragraph is interesting. Chess.com basically indicate that apart from Hans, a number of highly rated players (including higher than Hans) have been caught and admitted to cheating. I haven't gone over the report thoroughly, but it's clearly focused on Hans's conduct and not so much on the state of play regarding online cheating, which is, even by Magnus's statement, the chief focus of all of…

> Using a computer engine is part of learning and preparing in chess (AFAICT). What other sport has a similar issue where an extremely useful and essential and highly available tool in the sport is considered cheating based entirely on using it within the narrow window of a game? In Magnus' recent interview with Lex Fridman, he said though members of his team utilize engines in preparation, it's not something he pers…

Thanks ... didn't listen to that interview. Also, I'm not a chess person, so everything is AFAICT.

But ...

1) Magnus is one of the greatest ever, so he doesn't count as an example;

2) From excerpt, his *team* does use engines, and he *uses his team*. So his use of engines is one degree removed compared to others, which hardly matters, especially given point 1 above.

Re: The Full Chess Cheating Report of Hans Neiman

#118

Post by fastball »

mellosouls wrote: post #56
erdevs wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The full report is worth reading, if you're interested. It reveals a great deal of additional information, not just about Hans' history of cheating and his misrepresentations, but of wider spread cheating (or suspected cheating) by high level chess elites online.

I've now gone through the full report and note that the vast bulk of it has little to do with the accusations themselves (or evidence) but ELI5 type stuff about the context including analysis, and - as you say - indications of a wider problem. That's fine, but gives the surface impression of being heavyweight while the important stuff is only a few pages and adds little that is new and nothing that delivers a knockou…

No, the kicker here is that Niemann claimed that at no point did he "cheat in a tournament with prize money.”

Chess.com says this is not the case by their analysis.

Cheating when you're 12 in matches that don't matter is one thing. Cheating in your late teens in tournaments with money is an entirely different one.

Re: The Full Chess Cheating Report of Hans Neiman

#119

Post by [deleted] »

altairprime wrote: post #39
htrqball wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Hi, welcome to HN. Speaking for all of us long-term users, I think we would very much enjoy that 72-page report that you've offered to compile. If you post a submission linking to it, let us know. (Especially interesting would be a meta-analysis of the types of lying and so on!)

[deleted]
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