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Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

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Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#61

Post by m463 »

STRML wrote: post #22

There are multiple tells that this move, just like the removal of radar, is supply-chain and cost-driven and not actually driven by engineering. If this were a planned move, the software would already be ready to replace it. It is not. Cars without radar still aren't at parity with the car that have it, although they "fixed" this a few weeks back by simply turning off the radar on the older cars. The parking sensors…

> The parking sensors on the Tesla are really good and very useful.

I respectfully disagree.

I think their primary use case is parking. Tesla does a really good job with automatic parking, and it IS useful especially for parallel parking.

But honestly, I have curbed my rims and hung up my underbody front spoiler on a curb and they did not help.

Really there is an opportunity for cameras to protect the car from nearby curbs and park in the same way.

But like you said, current telsa camera placement doesn't have enough coverage, especially in front.

At a minimum, I think they should add a front camera if they're going to remove the ultrasonic sensors.

and realistically, they should solve the ultrasonic problem of curbs with the cameras.

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#62

Post by Qworg »

aeternum wrote: post #42
STRML wrote: post #22

There are multiple tells that this move, just like the removal of radar, is supply-chain and cost-driven and not actually driven by engineering. If this were a planned move, the software would already be ready to replace it. It is not. Cars without radar still aren't at parity with the car that have it, although they "fixed" this a few weeks back by simply turning off the radar on the older cars. The parking sensors…

With the removal of radar, they showed some pretty convincing data that the radar was too noisy to be useful, especially with discriminating things like highway overpasses vs. stopped cars. They showed that vision could already outperform radar. With these parking sensors it's different. They have no current alternative and it will cause a pretty significant loss of functionality. Disappointing move.

I'd love to see the convincing data RE: radar - they're using the same radars as every other car that has emergency braking from the car in front of the car that's in front of you. I've not heard of many "phantom braking" sessions from these other vehicles - I may have missed something.

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#63

Post by peteradio »

drcross wrote: post #55
hansonkd13 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you're head and shoulders above any of your competitors, you're able to get away with things like this. The hubris of Tesla is still believing this to be the case. I personally cancelled my cybertruck order from lack of interest. better competition exists in 2022 that wasn’t the case years ago.

Tesla's are outselling every other manufacturer (ICE or otherwise) in many countries for the last quarter and they are still severely supply constrained; your personal antidotal data point doesn't serve much purpose in the broader context.

What countries?

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#64

Post by aeternum »

Qworg wrote: post #62
aeternum wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the removal of radar, they showed some pretty convincing data that the radar was too noisy to be useful, especially with discriminating things like highway overpasses vs. stopped cars. They showed that vision could already outperform radar. With these parking sensors it's different. They have no current alternative and it will cause a pretty significant loss of functionality. Disappointing move.

I'd love to see the convincing data RE: radar - they're using the same radars as every other car that has emergency braking from the car in front of the car that's in front of you. I've not heard of many "phantom braking" sessions from these other vehicles - I may have missed something.

Karpathy covered it during a conference keynote here: https://youtu.be/g6bOwQdCJrc?t=1368

It also is pretty common with other vehicles, they just don't get as much press as Tesla:

https://www.rivianownersforum.com/threads/phantom-braking-an...

https://www.fox43.com/article/news/feds-try-to-determine-why...

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#66

Post by signatoremo »

gamblor956 wrote: post #57
drcross wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's are outselling every other manufacturer (ICE or otherwise) in many countries for the last quarter and they are still severely supply constrained; your personal antidotal data point doesn't serve much purpose in the broader context.

Tesla's own reporting out of China from Friday is that they weren't able to sell all the cars they made...

“In Q3, we began transitioning to a more even regional mix of vehicle builds each week, which led to an increase in cars in transit at the end of the quarter. These cars have been ordered and will be delivered to customers upon arrival at their destination” - [0]

In other words, they said all of the cars had been ordered, although many were in transition at the end of the quarter.

What is your source of what Tesla said in China?

[0] - https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-vehicle-production-...

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#67

Post by lttlrck »

phoe18 wrote: post #52
BoorishBears wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are wrong. A truly unbelievable coincidence coming across this article, I just got rear-ended by a Model 3 this morning. Low speed, I'd figure about 10 mph tops: A softball to end all softballs for AEB, and somehow I got hit with considerable force. We've had radar based systems that would have avoided this since the 2000s. I work in the self-driving space and while it's not an apples to apples comparison becaus…

Was the Tesla being driven in the FSD mode? or was this a simple human error?

IIUC this would be autopilot functionality, not FSD. And like the sibling suggests, it should be always on.

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#68

Post by BoorishBears »

phoe18 wrote: post #52
BoorishBears wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are wrong. A truly unbelievable coincidence coming across this article, I just got rear-ended by a Model 3 this morning. Low speed, I'd figure about 10 mph tops: A softball to end all softballs for AEB, and somehow I got hit with considerable force. We've had radar based systems that would have avoided this since the 2000s. I work in the self-driving space and while it's not an apples to apples comparison becaus…

Was the Tesla being driven in the FSD mode? or was this a simple human error?

My entire point is that even outside of FSD this is a scenario a base model Corolla has the technology to handle: AEB

You don't actively engage AEB, at the kinds of low speeds involved AEB would have engaged and at least helped stop the car.

This was traffic that was going maybe 20 mph, and the car still hit me solidly enough for my car to lurch forward and almost hit the one in front of me

-

But as an aside, this is why Tesla's "Full Self Driving" shouldn't be on the market: It is always human error.

Even if FSD was enabled (I hope it wasn't) it'd be the human's fault for not reacting.

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#69

Post by [deleted] »

drcross wrote: post #55
hansonkd13 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you're head and shoulders above any of your competitors, you're able to get away with things like this. The hubris of Tesla is still believing this to be the case. I personally cancelled my cybertruck order from lack of interest. better competition exists in 2022 that wasn’t the case years ago.

Tesla's are outselling every other manufacturer (ICE or otherwise) in many countries for the last quarter and they are still severely supply constrained; your personal antidotal data point doesn't serve much purpose in the broader context.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision

#70

Post by smileysteve »

itstomkent wrote: post #7
JoshGlazebrook wrote: post #3

“In the near future, once these features achieve performance parity to today’s vehicles” Right... like how vision vehicles have parity with autopilot speeds and following distance? Oh wait they don't. Vision-only vehicles are still limited to a max of 85mph and 2 car minimum following distance for autosteer while radar is 90mph and 1 car following distance. Texas has 85mph highways. The two car following distance con…

Dude if you are going 85-90 miles an hour and you aren't leaving AT LEAST 2 cars in between you, please stay off the road. You should be keeping 3 seconds of distance between you and the car in front of you. At 90 miles per hour that's a hell of a lot more than 2 car lengths.

op is posting about the people who cut him off. If I use adaptive cruise control at 2 or 3 (stopping distance) car lengths, then I'm just cut off every time, even though there is nowhere to go.

The end to this unsafe and traffic causing behavior is something I look forward to in more self driving cars. (Fewer drivers racing dangerously for "pride" points to end up at the same traffic light in 500')

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