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Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

yarn.pranshum.com

131–140 of 550 posts

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#131
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I gotta say, I should not be surprised at people advocating for inflation. But I am. High inflation has been the boogeyman, foe and underminer of economies world-wide, left-leaning and right-leaning, so I didn't see it coming. But here we are, people advocating for the erosion of purchasing power! But, if it were a wining combination I guess we can expect Biden to embrace Inflation, Advocate for it and pronounce that…

Assuming wages rise (they are), debtors benefit from inflation as their debts become less onerous in real dollar terms. Most Americans are debtors.

i think this would only work with fixed rate debt which narrows it down to home and, maybe, auto loans. However, there are variable loans for everything (including homes) and they're pushed heavily since there's more profit on a variable rate loan.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#132
post #28

History teaches us that inflation will continue as long as the government keeps printing fiat money with no backing. For a historical example, the Confederacy had high inflation. The printing press was in Richmond. When Richmond was threatened with a siege, the Confederacy hustled the printing press out to get it to a new, safer location. Confederate inflation paused during the move. The reason is pretty simple - the…

This is a very simplistic viewpoint. One could also argue that Inflation happens when people don't trust that their government will pay back all the money borrowed. The US govt has been on a spending spree as of late, but hasn't yet bothered to mention how they are going to pay for it. In 2008/2009, the US govt was also on a spending spree, but did promise to pay the bill eventually. Inflation didn't spike in 2008/20…

Monetary inflation is the increase in the money supply. Price inflation is one of the potential symptoms of monetary inflation. Too often people look at just one symptom to gauge the occurrence of the cause. Currently we are experiencing both, but people seem to want to ignore the inflation of the money supply, and scratch our heads over every other variable that affects prices.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There’s also a tipping point where inflation is self propelled because everyone is used to it so they just proactively raise prices on a regular basis. This is called cost-push inflation. Unfortunately, that theory doesn't explain where the extra dollars come from.

Why would you expect there to be some unifying theory of inflation? It's an emergent phenomenon resulting from the actions of many individual actors. I'm quite sure the people raising the prices every week had no idea how much cash was in circulation.

Fiat money (or anything that increases the supply of money, like gold rushes) is the common factor with all instances of inflation. There are thousands of years of examples of this.

You're right on one point, the Law of Supply & Demand. It is an emergent property of many individual actions, though each might be completely ignorant of the big picture.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#134

It may also help to see the cumulative inflation picture: https://totalrealreturns.com/s/USDOLLAR?normalize=end (disclosure: my side project) The 1974 and 1980 peaks from the article correspond to the steeper slope regions in those same years on my graph. (I'm plotting 1/[CPI-U price level], while the article is plotting d/dt [CPI-U price level]) On my y-axis is the purchasing power of a US dollar, relative to curren…

Yeah but that’s not the whole picture… in 1962 the ford truck was $2000 now is around 40,000 so while a new one is better you still have to earn 2x as much to get the most basic one available

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#135

Unfortunately I leaned on history to make investment decisions during this period of rising inflation. Gold, stocks, and real estate were historically good hedges against inflation and cash holdings should be minimized. But that conventional wisdom has been a bad strategy this time. As a reminder one ~sure bet is iBonds (the i is for inflation). Last I checked the yield is little shy of 10% and your money only needs…

Afaik inflation devaluates stock relative to bonds and its small 101 of economics but Im no expert

The Econ 101 is the complete opposite. Bonds usually have fixed rates, whereas stock prices are in principal tied to revenues, and nominal revenues should increase with inflation--companies increasing prices is literally how most people experience inflation. But Econ 101 also suggests that in the short term things will be more complex than all that because price adjustments won't be instantaneous. Fear and volatility will create demand for bonds, which could offset to some extent the clearly diminishing nominal value of fixed-rate bonds.

Note that a key factor here isn't inflation, per se, but the rate of change in inflation. From an Econ 101 perspective 2% inflation is no different than 20% inflation if things are otherwise steady-state. Stocks are the better bet because in principal they should respond more quickly to changes in the inflation rate. If inflation is steady, bonds in principal are the simpler, cheaper instrument.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#136
As a brazilian, history teaches that inflation is a pain in the ass.

I lived in hyperinflation when I was a kid. I rememore that my parents would receive and run to the market in the same day, and buy everything in bulk, because next day, their money would be worth half.

Markets would tag products once or twice a day.

I remember buying an X-men comic that was worth something like 1000 BRC.

Monthly inflation would be beetween 50% - 80%.

Also a lot of the commerce was informal and using barter.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You do realize that the US has had fiat money for decades, right? Yes, since 1914 when the US switched to fiat money. > Including our longest period of low inflation, a run of nearly 4 decades The US had zero net inflation from 1800 to 1914. How much net inflation do you think happened in those 4 decades? What would a 1914 US dollar be worth today? I'll help you out. $29.92 https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

> The US had zero net inflation from 1800 to 1914. This is just absurd. Not only is this a period so different than a modern economy that it's not useful for comparison, but during that period it was a roller coaster of inflation and deflation, both of which are terrible for people. Those curious can see the volatility here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical_Inflat...

> This is just absurd. Not only is this a period so different than a modern economy that it's not useful for comparison,

I hear that a lot. Nobody is ever able to explain what law of economics changed in 1914. The Law of Supply & Demand was just the same as it always was.

> but during that period it was a roller coaster of inflation and deflation, both of which are terrible for people. Those curious can see the volatility here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical_Inflat...

All of the spikes were the result of the US government meddling with the economy (such as bimetalism and other nonsense, see Friedman's "Monetary History of the United States"). Except for the big one, coincidentally coincident with the California gold rush. Or is that a coincidence? Tons of gold flooding into the economy, what would the consequence of that be? Hmmm.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#138

History teaches us that inflation will continue as long as the government keeps printing fiat money with no backing. For a historical example, the Confederacy had high inflation. The printing press was in Richmond. When Richmond was threatened with a siege, the Confederacy hustled the printing press out to get it to a new, safer location. Confederate inflation paused during the move. The reason is pretty simple - the…

> History teaches us that inflation will continue as long as the government keeps printing fiat money with no backing. The government (to be correct we should say: the Federal Reserve) has not been "printing money" for around a year now. Monetary base has actually declined by ~12% in that time: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=UrKo

Issuing debt is the same thing.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#139
post #21

> But if the main driver of inflation is the demand side, or inflation expectations, history indicates that a painful recession could be the only way to curb inflation. That's certainly the expected path forward, at least in the circles I associate with. "When the tide goes out, you find out who's swimming naked" seems a reasonable guess as to what's going to happen. Both at larger bank/investment firm scale and at t…

>That does imply that you might consider some backup energy solutions for the winter. I'm a fan of kerosene lately. Less annoying to use than propane, and stores almost as well. By backup you mean for heating? Can you safely burn kerosene indoors? I thought you would have all sort of pollutants on top of monoxide?

Heating and light, yes.

You can, and people have throughout the last century and a half, both for heat and light. In terms of winter, the fact that kerosene lanterns provide "a bit of light and a lot of heat" is useful - though the light coming off a good cold blast lantern is just wonderful, year round. A nice continuous spectrum, cooler than candles, but still a very nice yellow-orange, with more than enough to read by.

I've been experimenting with them for a while now, and as far as I can tell, a properly burning kerosene lantern doesn't put any measurable particulate in the air, at least as far as PM2.5 or PM10. Run them too high, they'll certainly smoke, but run properly, I can't measure any real difference with the meters I have. They should be burning cleanly.

The same goes for the wick type kerosene heaters - either convection or radiant. They should be burning clean, and if you get any smoke off them, you've got a problem that needs fixing (the good news is that it's almost always either just burning them dry to remove tars from the wick, or at worst replacing the wick).

You shouldn't be getting any carbon monoxide off them either. That's from incomplete combustion, which, again, shouldn't be happening. A properly designed and operating lantern or heater will be feeding a strong draft into the burner. A window slightly open should provide enough venting for a typical unit burning - though I'd have a CO meter around any combustion heat as a normal habit anymore.

If you're burning 1K, you'll get some kerosene odor on startup and shutdown, but it shouldn't be much during operation. However, if you're in the US (perhaps other places too), you can get Klean Heat, which is a kerosene substitute that's somewhat more expensive (~$15/gal vs about $10 for 1K out here), but burns significantly cleaner. It behaves the same, so can burn in the same lanterns, but just burns cleaner all around - less odor, less wick fouling (though that's not usually a big issue with 1K, just the red dyed stuff), etc.

But, yes, I very much do refer to kerosene as a backup for heating. I prefer it over propane - it smells better (propane has a bit of a metallic tang, kerosene is a far warmer smell), and I don't have a pressurized bottle of flammable gas in the house. Kerosene is combustible - not flammable. The flash point of the stuff you should be using is around 140F, which means below that temperature, it doesn't emit enough vapor to ignite in regular air. Gasoline's flash point is -40, give or take, so it will happily generate vapors in regular air looking for a thing to light them of. Especially in the winter, at 40-50F, kerosene is quite safe compared to other heating solutions.

Anyway, it's something to look into. Our energy systems are not in good shape globally, and being able to stay warm with the power grid down and the natural gas empty seems like the sort of thing one might want to consider more lately.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#140
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more currency flooding the economy, the less wealthy the rich people are. Inflation occurs because the owners need to remain wealthy, hence prices go up everywhere. If it were possible for the top few to do with a little less, prices wouldn't have to skyrocket.

I'm skeptical of that claim since the rich hold more assets than dollars. To the extent inflation hurts the economy then your claim is true but that is a second order affect. All else equal, inflation can simply lead to asset inflation in which case the rich maintain their wealth. In economics circles inflation is generally considered a tax on the poor who only hold cash and whose wages are slower to rise vs price in…

> I'm skeptical of that claim since the rich hold more assets than dollars

You should be. I doubt the rich hold any dollars at all. They invest it all. There aren't any Scrooge McDuck cash vaults.

(Criminals often do hold lots of cash, and they try to get rid of it by laundering it.)

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