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Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

yarn.pranshum.com

21–30 of 550 posts

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#21
> But if the main driver of inflation is the demand side, or inflation expectations, history indicates that a painful recession could be the only way to curb inflation.

That's certainly the expected path forward, at least in the circles I associate with.

"When the tide goes out, you find out who's swimming naked" seems a reasonable guess as to what's going to happen. Both at larger bank/investment firm scale and at the individual level.

At an individual level, just how much slack and flexibility do you have in your spending, your finances, your general way of living? If you're a high earner (there are certainly plenty here that would qualify), are you spending that on lots of monthly payments of assorted luxury and stretch items (house, cars, all the other crap you can get loans for)? You're probably going to be in a world of hurt - there's no income so high you can't outspend it, and it's really hard to adjust those payments when the value of money goes down and you need more for the living expenses. Also, those payments don't go away if your job is eliminated.

If you're comfortably pulled back, with either a high savings rate or a high "optional spending" rate, then you should be in far better shape to adapt - and I'll suggest that using some of those resources to help others around you would be useful. Even just coordinating bulk buys of food and other resources is helpful. But the key here is that this allows for flexibility. It's good to be rich, and all that - so don't be stupid about it.

I think, collectively, we're in for a world of hurt. Inflation is high, and energy costs seem to be staggering back up. Europe is going to be a frozen wasteland this winter if it's anything but a warm winter, and the energy costs are already eating businesses alive out there. That's before you get to a possibility this winter, in which money doesn't help, because there's simply no energy to deliver. If the natural gas pipeline to your place are empty, welp. Doesn't help to be able to afford the energy when there's none to buy.

That does imply that you might consider some backup energy solutions for the winter. I'm a fan of kerosene lately. Less annoying to use than propane, and stores almost as well.

The last couple years have broken a lot of things. And we're only just beginning to learn how much is broken, how badly.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#23
post #6
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally didn’t get that from the highlight reels of the mid 70’s and early 80’s. Mostly it was the total chaos, riots, and unrest. They were also immediately followed by Reagan, who wasn’t exactly a shining beacon of progressivism. But there were a lot of changes during that time, many that could be considered progressive, mixed in with (or perhaps the reason behind?) the chaos. A lot of folks don’t like change,…

> total chaos, riots, and unrest looks like we come full circle

Not really. We don't have the assassinations.

The national guard doesn't shoot people; that's been democratized to police and private citizens.

The big violent demonstrations are gone. What passes for it these days is a pale shadow.

One "benefit" of the increased inequality is that people making less than the median are too exhausted to demonstrate, much less rebel. Rebellion has always been the act of those who belong, and by excluding more of society there is "peace".

Scare quotes used in case it's not obvious that I don't approve.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#24

History teaches us that inflation will continue as long as the government keeps printing fiat money with no backing. For a historical example, the Confederacy had high inflation. The printing press was in Richmond. When Richmond was threatened with a siege, the Confederacy hustled the printing press out to get it to a new, safer location. Confederate inflation paused during the move. The reason is pretty simple - the…

Ok, but why now? Why not 14 years ago, or 10 years ago, or 5 years ago? We've been in a zero-interest-rate, QE world for quite a while.

Somehow I do not think it is as trivial as your 8th grade econ textbook might suggest.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#25
post #7
post #2

Weren't the high inflation years also some of the most progressive, with some of the lowest inequality in recent decades?

I gotta say, I should not be surprised at people advocating for inflation. But I am. High inflation has been the boogeyman, foe and underminer of economies world-wide, left-leaning and right-leaning, so I didn't see it coming. But here we are, people advocating for the erosion of purchasing power! But, if it were a wining combination I guess we can expect Biden to embrace Inflation, Advocate for it and pronounce that…

I don’t understand your second paragraph.

Are you saying: “If inflation is good, Biden will support more of it”?

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#26

History teaches us that inflation will continue as long as the government keeps printing fiat money with no backing. For a historical example, the Confederacy had high inflation. The printing press was in Richmond. When Richmond was threatened with a siege, the Confederacy hustled the printing press out to get it to a new, safer location. Confederate inflation paused during the move. The reason is pretty simple - the…

> History teaches us that inflation will continue as long as the government keeps printing fiat money.

That's what you hear a lot, especially these days.

But is it really true? What exactly is the signal path, that leads from more money to a higher inflation? I guess, there is a fair amount of psychology involved.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#27

Is there a historic precedent for Quantitive Easing? Is there a historic precedent for Quantitive Tightening? We have been at it since 2008 that means there is little historic data to draw any preemption from, we are on unchartered waters at this point.

Not that uncharted, perhaps. You can look up the Amsterdam banking crisis of 1763.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_banking_crisis_of_...

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#28

History teaches us that inflation will continue as long as the government keeps printing fiat money with no backing. For a historical example, the Confederacy had high inflation. The printing press was in Richmond. When Richmond was threatened with a siege, the Confederacy hustled the printing press out to get it to a new, safer location. Confederate inflation paused during the move. The reason is pretty simple - the…

This is a very simplistic viewpoint. One could also argue that Inflation happens when people don't trust that their government will pay back all the money borrowed.

The US govt has been on a spending spree as of late, but hasn't yet bothered to mention how they are going to pay for it.

In 2008/2009, the US govt was also on a spending spree, but did promise to pay the bill eventually. Inflation didn't spike in 2008/2009.

The bottom line is, nobody really KNOWS, we just have guesses. My guess currently fits all the facts, where yours does not, but that doesn't mean my guess is right, but perhaps it's more correct than your version.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#29
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I gotta say, I should not be surprised at people advocating for inflation. But I am. High inflation has been the boogeyman, foe and underminer of economies world-wide, left-leaning and right-leaning, so I didn't see it coming. But here we are, people advocating for the erosion of purchasing power! But, if it were a wining combination I guess we can expect Biden to embrace Inflation, Advocate for it and pronounce that…

Assuming wages rise (they are), debtors benefit from inflation as their debts become less onerous in real dollar terms. Most Americans are debtors.

In the short term, maybe.

Also, you’re assuming debt has fixed interest rates and asset prices will continue to rise forever. Neither of those things is likely to be true in the medium term (~5 years).

It’s complex. You can’t just look at high inflation in a vacuum without also considering that interest rates will rise (and possibly overcorrect) in response to high inflation.

Re: Inflation is at a 40 year high. What can history teach us?

#30
post #4
post #2

Weren't the high inflation years also some of the most progressive, with some of the lowest inequality in recent decades?

I personally didn’t get that from the highlight reels of the mid 70’s and early 80’s. Mostly it was the total chaos, riots, and unrest. They were also immediately followed by Reagan, who wasn’t exactly a shining beacon of progressivism. But there were a lot of changes during that time, many that could be considered progressive, mixed in with (or perhaps the reason behind?) the chaos. A lot of folks don’t like change,…

> They were also immediately followed by Reagan, who wasn’t exactly a shining beacon of progressivism.

Reagan benefited from Volker, and Carter chose Volker knowing that it would probably cost him re-election.

Reagan then squandered the benefit, but is now worshipped as some sort of prelapsarian god. Let's hope the US can slough off that nonsense soon.

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