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US Job Outlook for Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers

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Re: US Job Outlook for Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. I would also say that this is more of a symptom of university degrees being a title system, rather than strongly signalling candidates' capabilities.

As an emphasis of your point consider the two statements "Our engineering is backed by MIT graduates" "Our engineering is backed by the best engineers" One sounds a LOT better to a client. It's a lot easier to sell a product when you can lean on an actual credential than a vague superlative. Even if your vague superlative is absolutely true.

So strong is MIT’s brand that it sounds really convincing to the rest of us with technical experience too (I’m assuming S/E’s with years of experience).

Unless it’s crypto. Then I’m still “yeah but nah tho”.

Re: US Job Outlook for Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers

#62
post #23

I've been startled to find out that the global population is stabilizing or is actually reducing [0]. To me that means that any shortages that are apparent now (and Software Dev shortage has been trumpeted about for years) will continue into the future. If you look at the demographics of US [1], you see that dip below the age of 30, so there are fewer folks coming online to take the jobs of the people retiring. Of co…

With a declining population, wouldn’t you expect less demand?

Re: US Job Outlook for Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say it's a soft requirement in most cases. One must be prepared for an extra uphill battle trying to secure a job without one. As someone who just broke into the industry this month (with no degree), my biggest assets were an existing portfolio of work and leveraging my ten years of professional experience working on complex/critical problems in various fields. I don't think this is strictly related to softwa…

I spent the first ten or so years of my career without a degree. And I can say with certainty that jobs are substantially easier to come by now that I have a CS degree. I'm not sure if this is still the case for people, but I faced a lot of discrimination from management over my lack of degree. Especially managers who "inherited" me. Some of it was petty too, like all the other devs on my team were software "engineer…

To be honest I never understood the ubiquitous use of the word engineer.

To me an engineer has a degree in engineering (including software engineering, which focuses on large-scale infrastructure, not algorithms). In many countries engineers are legally liable for what they implement.

Re: US Job Outlook for Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers

#64

The last few companies I've worked for had zero testers or QA analysts. Testing was a side job for developers and product folks.

That does seem to be a current trend. It actually might swing back though. It also depends on what industry you're in. If you can "move fast and break things", you may not need/want QAs. But in Healthcare and finance (for example), you probably want QAs.

Re: US Job Outlook for Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers

#65

"Overall employment of software developers, quality assurance analysts, and testers is projected to grow 25 percent from 2021 to 2031, much faster than the average for all occupations." Job Security. As long as you learn whatever new fad frameworks replace React.

React has been popular for 8 years, has an unassailable lead (we may not see an equivalent usage competitor in 10 years), and in 1 day you can learn the basics for making an app.

Re: US Job Outlook for Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers

#66
post #53

"Overall employment of software developers, quality assurance analysts, and testers is projected to grow 25 percent from 2021 to 2031, much faster than the average for all occupations." Job Security. As long as you learn whatever new fad frameworks replace React.

:wave: https://github.com/cheatcode/joystick (But I sincerely hope it's not a fad as I've designed it to be the antithesis to the rabbit chasing and dogmatic nonsense that's plagued JS the last decade or so).

Looks cool, I feel like comparing it to React/Vue isn't totally fair though, it seems closer to something like Next.js.

Re: US Job Outlook for Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers

#67

> Overall employment of software developers, quality assurance analysts, and testers is projected to grow 25 percent from 2021 to 2031, much faster than the average for all occupations. 10 years is a long enough time horizon in tech for any number of inflection points to occur. My bet is this swings heavily in the downward direction as more specialization in the industry occurs, the usage of the title "software devel…

Also consolidation of companies: instead of 20 smallish companies, you now get 2 big companies. Less developers for same amount of functionality. (at least what I see in vacation business)

Software engineers are amazing at putting themselves out of a job.

Luckily, the growth in the list of things for us to do is outpacing our ability to automate away the things we do.

Re: US Job Outlook for Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers

#68
post #4

25% growth in the next ten years? Isn't that a slowdown in growth? I seem to remember the Uncle Bob video where # of devs is doubling every 5 years or so. OTOH I feel we're at peak now, the investment money is drying up and management will force efficiencies going forward.

There's a big difference between A Peak and The Peak. Cobblers hit The Peak of their employment numbers long in the past; but software still dominates the world. What I've observed:

Uninvested VC funds are still at extremely high levels (or as those in the industry call it: dry powder) [1]. There's some sources which report that aggregate counts are down relative to 2021, but only marginally; its still higher than 2019 levels. Part of that is because of the next bullet point (low investment activity), but another big part is: the Fed printed the majority of US Dollars in circulation within the past two years.

But VC investments are way down for 2022 [2]. Near-peak money, but low investment activity. VCs are just acting more conservatively. The economic slowdown has a big part to play in this, but days go by with bullish markets, low unemployment, pressure (from the UN, most recently) on the Fed to stop raising rates, a return to QE by the BoE, food on the shelves... as they say, the money is burning a hole in their pocket, investors expect returns, and it needs to be spent. I've heard one insider say that 2022Q3-2023Q1 may be one of the best times to seek VC funding, ever.

I think you're right that "management will force efficiency". I think this is a death sentence for many tech companies, especially as we talk about bigger ones; but they'll do it anyway.

- Killing moonshots is a classic round 1 for layoffs; but those moonshots are oftentimes what drives such high ratios for these companies; buzzwordy future revenue potential that sometimes works out. Tesla isn't priced like Ford for a reason, but if Tesla pivots to start looking more like Ford; their valuation takes a huge hit. And even if that fall lands their valuation somewhere near Ford, they're in a far worse spot because Ford didn't just lose XX% of their valuation; the markets (meaning: financing) don't care where you're at, they care how you've changed (I'm picking on Tesla, but this also applies to Amazon, Google, any big tech company).

- Its extremely difficult to do layoffs (or even freeze hiring) in software orgs. Product development is already slow in most big companies; layoffs won't make it faster (or maybe they would...) The percentage of time every developer spends with ongoing maintenance increases with every employee a company hires. Every engineer at a Big Co has experienced the classic "what service handles that, ok this one, wheres it running, huh that's weird but ok, who owns it, jesus of course there's no codeowners, shit this is actually critical to X Y Z, oh its got partial ownership between this team in Asia and this team in the UK..." now imagine that dysfunction, but through the lens of layoffs.

- Any layoffs are expected to trigger a cascade effect of secondary departures. Even if a company can lay-off the right people, non-critical, newbies, etc, to keep the core business going; many people who survived are now submitting resumes elsewhere, hiring is slowed because, uh, layoffs just happened, and your company now has a red mark in every potential applicant's hitlist. There are extremely few companies, let alone tech companies, that have done double-digit-percent layoffs then came out the other end stronger. I only say this to say that: companies don't just lay off people for no reason, and very few big tech companies have financial reason to do layoffs right now (except maybe Meta).

- There's billions in capital waiting to invest in ventures that can eat some of Big Tech's lunch. If you're the head of Google, this is what's scaring you right now. Its not just the economic slowdown. Its not just the seven figure salaries you've been paying people. Its that, despite or because of all that, you may have to do layoffs, or at least cool hiring, and you have to do that while swimming surrounded by sharks who want nothing more than to give those people you laid off a few million dollars to attack a problem you trained them to be a worldwide expert in.

- And even in that environment; those huge salaries Big Tech has been paying have led to actual financial freedom for a ton of people in the software industry. Combine that with smart real estate investments or passive income and there's a significant tranche of software engineers who are biting at the bit for a bull market to come around; then retire; or maybe try an independent business (for many I've talked to, as unrelated to software as humanly possible). This trend is NOT insignificant, will become more apparent throughout 2023, and will further pressure the already hot engineering job market.

I only wall of text this to support the position that I really think this industry is fine, and growing. Software is complex. Business is complex. There are basically zero signals, right now, which communicate to me that the engineering job market won't grow over the next decade.

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/venture-capitals-cash-stockpile...

[2] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/venture-capital-is-seeing-a-s...

Re: US Job Outlook for Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers

#69

The last few companies I've worked for had zero testers or QA analysts. Testing was a side job for developers and product folks.

QA never meshed well with me. Their job seemed to be gaining context on what I was working on and then testing it for me, but if they caught a bug it was on me. QA catching something was treated as a negative reflection on the dev, so we still exhaustively tested everything before it got too QA, which made them seem pretty redundant.

Re: US Job Outlook for Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers

#70
post #62
post #23

I've been startled to find out that the global population is stabilizing or is actually reducing [0]. To me that means that any shortages that are apparent now (and Software Dev shortage has been trumpeted about for years) will continue into the future. If you look at the demographics of US [1], you see that dip below the age of 30, so there are fewer folks coming online to take the jobs of the people retiring. Of co…

With a declining population, wouldn’t you expect less demand?

With a population both declining and aging, the supply of labor decreases faster than demand for it
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