EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024 • Hacker News Board

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#701

Post by pb7 » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 4:37 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #673

pb7 wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If there is one thing that drives EU legislation ideas, it is the convergence towards open and common, market-wide standards. This reduces the barriers to entry for small players and leads to more innovation as a result. Can you provide some examples of innovation that the EU has made in this industry in the last 20 years?

For sure: - mobile phone and data roaming, the most notable user-facing innovation - the single market itself with all the associated side legislation (GDPR, VAT OSS) that allows every tiny small business to serve the entire EU - Schengen free-movement zone - Euro currency - SEPA instead of national schemes (ties in into the single market aspect as well) with everything from card payments over wire transfers to direc…

I meant innovation in consumer electronics or even just software services as a result of legislation, not legislation itself. Payments and bank APIs count. Thanks for the examples.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#702

Post by thatfrenchguy » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 4:37 PM UTC

speleding wrote: post #696

TheYumasi wrote: post #555

As an EU citizen, I am really happy with this decision. I am an iPhone user, but having an iPhone is not ubiquitous here, almost all of my friends/special other, use an Android phone with USB-C. Most of their laptops, Mac or not, use or allow USB-C for charging. This as been the case for a few years now, yet, if I go somewhere for more than a full day and forget my lighting cable, my phone will become a useless paper…

The main problem I have with USB-C is that it is not a particularly good standard for power delivery. For one, USB-C is not "IP rated" for use in the kitchen or the bathroom, so you still need separate chargers there. Also the USB-C connector supports fast data delivery, which makes it a lot more expensive than a connector that focusses on power only. A standard that would do just power delivery <100W and works in da…

> A standard that would do just power delivery Don't you just have a RCD/GFCI on your outlet / breaker for this purpose?

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#703

Post by jwr » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 4:37 PM UTC

TheYumasi wrote: post #555

As an EU citizen, I am really happy with this decision. I am an iPhone user, but having an iPhone is not ubiquitous here, almost all of my friends/special other, use an Android phone with USB-C. Most of their laptops, Mac or not, use or allow USB-C for charging. This as been the case for a few years now, yet, if I go somewhere for more than a full day and forget my lighting cable, my phone will become a useless paper…

USB-C is just a connector.

If we follow this logic, the EU should also mandate which aspects of USB-C PD are required to be supported and enforce that. Otherwise we'll end up with a slew of devices without even the required 5.1k resistors, which can't charge from PD-compliant adapters, but can be charged using a USB-A to USB-C cable.

As an EU citizen, while I do agree that regulation is often required (it did wonders for our roaming charges!), I do not like this development.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#704

Post by yamtaddle » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 4:39 PM UTC

kypro wrote: post #87

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electronics companies decide what's best for them. Competition in the smart phone market is done, so consumers no longer have a say. These kinds of interoperability standards are great and would love to see more of them internationally.

Consumers still don't have a say. Now instead of companies choosing what hardware & features are best for their product, and you then choosing products based on your preferences, EU regulators are now forcing companies (and therefore you) to use whatever they think is best. I think in the case of USB-C it's not too bad just because USB-C is widely agreed to be a good connector that's already widely adopted, but there…

Standardizing shit that doesn't need to be different, in order to let markets function better, is one of the oldest functions of the state as we know it, and a precursor to the development of capitalism.

Seeing the benefit to doing that kind of thing (which required developments in thought & practice in political economy) and being able to effectively enforce such decrees (which required various other developments in theory and technology, plus the right circumstances) on a large area is even seen as one of the hallmarks of the development of the nation-state, and a major stepping stone to our modern global economic system and the modern state.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#705

Post by thatfrenchguy » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 4:40 PM UTC

CharlieDigital wrote: post #54

NextHendrix wrote: post #7

This gives me some cognitive dissonance. On the one hand, having a common connector will reduce waste and be much more convenient (eg "Hey have you got an iPhone charger?") and make losing a charger a cheaper mistake. On the other hand I'm not sure I like the idea of government mandating electrical connectors on devices, which could stifle innovation, or be very shortsighted in the typical government-rules-on-tech wa…

Imagine if every house in the US has different types of outlet shapes and sizes and voltages instead of our standard 120v, 15A 20A 3 prong outlets. (Minus specialized sockets like 240v, 30A, etc.) It would be ridiculous to have adapters and specialized plugs for everything for such a basic purpose.

Electricity in the US is such a mess though, it's so easy to reach the limit of a 120V/15A circuit.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#706

Post by codexb » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 4:40 PM UTC

TheYumasi wrote: post #555

As an EU citizen, I am really happy with this decision. I am an iPhone user, but having an iPhone is not ubiquitous here, almost all of my friends/special other, use an Android phone with USB-C. Most of their laptops, Mac or not, use or allow USB-C for charging. This as been the case for a few years now, yet, if I go somewhere for more than a full day and forget my lighting cable, my phone will become a useless paper…

There's nothing wise or moral about this decision.

Mandating a technology standard, purely for personal preference and convenience reasons -- not for reasons related to safety, or pollution, or security -- especially for things that change as fast as phones, is one of the most short-sighted and naive things any government could do.

There's a long history of Apple using proprietary connectors to achieve performance specifications above what the currently available standardized connectors could provide. Hell, in all likelihood, Apple is likely to ditch a charging connection altogether in favor of wireless charging in the near future. The EU is mandating technological stagnation. They will always be behind the market.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#707

Post by jiscariot » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 4:42 PM UTC

blue_light_man wrote: post #610

doikor wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A political organization like EU has no say in this. EU and most people living within it would disagree with this statement.

Quoted post unavailable.

What about the EU contributions to the web stack, like requiring every website on the internet forcing an accept cookies mouse click?

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#708

Post by arcticbull » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 4:45 PM UTC

codexb wrote: post #706

TheYumasi wrote: post #555

As an EU citizen, I am really happy with this decision. I am an iPhone user, but having an iPhone is not ubiquitous here, almost all of my friends/special other, use an Android phone with USB-C. Most of their laptops, Mac or not, use or allow USB-C for charging. This as been the case for a few years now, yet, if I go somewhere for more than a full day and forget my lighting cable, my phone will become a useless paper…

There's nothing wise or moral about this decision. Mandating a technology standard, purely for personal preference and convenience reasons -- not for reasons related to safety, or pollution, or security -- especially for things that change as fast as phones, is one of the most short-sighted and naive things any government could do. There's a long history of Apple using proprietary connectors to achieve performance sp…

Apple hasn't changed the 'fast-changing' lightning connector since 2012, and USB-A lasted from 1996 to, well, present. USB-C came out in 2014 and is likely going to outlive us both. Connectors simply don't change that fast, and I'm not sure why people think they do.

I think even the EU can regulate on that kind of schedule.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#709

Post by timbit42 » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 4:45 PM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #402

Apple is just going to remove all ports. Keep complaining and they're going to remove screens next to be super super duper innovative.

The EU did this to help the environment. Wireless charging is less efficient than charging cable and wastes electricity, so we may see the EU ban wireless charging.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#710

Post by salzig » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 4:46 PM UTC

Ok, I really like to have one connector for everything, and USB-C is quite dominant.

But at least for me, USB-C feels way more sensitive/fragile compared to Lightning.

While Plugging-in the USB-C Cable into my steam-deck i’m a bit afraid to break the port. Ramming in a Lightning Cable to any matching device doesn’t give me that feel.

Besides the obvious benefit of a single connector, do you really think USB-C is a good connector for phones/portables?