The deception of “buying” digital movies • Hacker News Board

Re: The deception of “buying” digital movies

#171

Post by nicholasjarnold » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:51 PM UTC

izacus wrote: post #125

josh_fyi wrote: post #10

Has anyone tried a legal challenge to the word "buy"? It seems like a straightforward case of misrepresentation.

That won't fix the core problem though - the platforms will just use another word for it and you still won't be able to take your content with you on a vacation or give it to your friends and family. It's a massive degradation of consumer rights you had guaranteed with physical media.

Exactly this. Those of a certain age will remember the days when all media was physical media. People could purchase new, used or trade for a copy of this media. People had some amount of freedom regarding how they handle and/or distribute this media. It could be resold. A corporation could not immediately and arbitrarily decide to revoke your right to use the media or place many restrictions on _how_ you used it.

While streaming media has some notable conveniences in certain cases, the downsides to the consumer seem to outweigh those benefits. It's as if there is a coordinated assault on ownership rights across many industries which is being led by the ubiquity of actually-broadband internet connectivity, the streaming technology that exists across many industries (gaming, movies, music and even general software) paired with corporation's insatiable desire for growth at all legal (even some not) costs. Because they now can, they will.

As one who prefers freedom of use to maximum convenience I think it wise to purchase physical media when possible and back it up in a manner which is suitable to your long-term accessibility needs. Maybe I'm just a crabby old guy...

Re: The deception of “buying” digital movies

#172

Post by weekendvampire » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:51 PM UTC

titzer wrote: post #114

I am hoarding DVDs and it's because a.) it's cheap, b.) it's reliable c.) it's future-proof and d.) I don't trust tomorrow's political/cultural landscape to not disappear things down the memory hole as well as subtly editing out offensive material or otherwise altering things in hard to detect ways. Case in point, not long ago a family member witnessed "Scrubs" being scrubbed of a particularly offensive joke that ran…

Agreed. Now if I have a TV show I haven't seen, I check if I've already downloaded it years back and watch the downloaded version rather than stream it. I can't trust streaming services to show me anything as it is, ever since Netflix removed the Community episode with blackface (it was parodying blackface, that was the point).

Re: The deception of “buying” digital movies

#173

Post by misterbishop » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:51 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #152

misterbishop wrote: post #122

I hate this as much as anyone, but it's wild that nerds make their stand on the sacred right TO WATCH A MOVIE. We face incredible political oppression and extreme economic exploitation in the context of global capitalism melting down. There are more important things than whether your $10 Hercules purchase still works in 20 years. By all means be angry about this, but try to connect it with things that have actual sta…

> There are more important things than whether your $10 Hercules purchase still works in 20 years. How you handle the small things is how you handle everything. I'm glad to see something breaking their trance. Let's hope they keep going!

nonsense. the political activity required to solve the big problems would sweep these little bullshit issues off the table.

Re: The deception of “buying” digital movies

#174

Post by js2 » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:53 PM UTC

So here's what I do when I buy a movie, either on Blu-ray or via iTunes. I download the remux from Usenet. If there isn't one (rarely), I wait for the Blu-ray to arrive and I rip it myself. There's a U.K. release of Wages of Fear that you cannot get in the U.S. any other way than purchasing the Blu-ray from BFI. (The U.S. Criterion Blu-ray release is missing 5 minutes of footage.)

Even for movies I rent or stream, I often download the remux to watch it, then delete it after watching. It's the only way to avoid bullshit like streaming apps (all of them except Criterion, no matter your settings), not letting me watch to the end of the credits in peace. Or subtitles which are shown below the frame for movies which are wider than 1.78:1. Or, let's say you want to watch RRR in its original language with English subtitles. Netflix only has the rights to the Hindi dub.

I want my money to go to the filmmakers and actors and production crew, but these fucking studios and streaming companies, man. Please, let me pay you to watch the movie in high quality and in peace. Why is it easier for me to pirate content? Like, it takes me 30 seconds to go to https://radarr.home.mydomain.org/, type in the name of the movie I want to watch, click search, click download, wait 5-10 minutes, and now it's there for me to watch.

Contrast that with going to Just Watch, maybe the movie is on a service I pay for, maybe it isn't. Maybe it's on Blu-ray, maybe only on DVD. Want to watch Happiness (1998)? Too bad, not available anywhere except maybe you can find a used DVD on Amazon for $50. How about The Heartbreak Kid (1972)? (Oh, hey, how do you like that, someone put up a copy of it on YouTube last year.) But time and again, movies just aren't available. I really don't understand why they get locked away. What's the incremental cost of taking a movie which has already been digitized for DVD or Blu-ray and making it available on a streaming service or for digital rental or purchase?

Come on Hollywood. Get your shit together.

Re: The deception of “buying” digital movies

#175

Post by vivegi » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:53 PM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #81

vivegi wrote: post #33

The closest analogy I can think of is this: Property developer leases a beachfront land for 99 years and builds a resort. You book a vacation at the resort. You enjoy the facilities -- pool, spa, restaurants etc., during your stay. At the end of your stay, you lose the privileges of staying at the resort/using the facilities. Even if you bought a timeshare in the resort, you still do not own it. Heck, the property de…

Real property like resorts all exist in the real world. There is no copying a resort. You can't just instantly copy a building. You can't just create more physical space on this planet. The limits of physics renders such property inherently scarce. Data is different, it is infinite. You can copy it infinitely at nearly zero cost. You can transmit it to anyone anywhere in the world at nearly zero cost. Any attempt to…

The reason why the long-term property lease analogy is accurate is because in most jurisdictions copyrights lapse after a stipulated period. That is inspite of corporations like Disney that have used copyright law to their benefit to extend the lifetime of their IP.

Taking your point about "free computing", I wonder why we haven't had the equivalent of open source software and the success we have seen over the last few decades hasn't spawned open content movement where we could get great movies, music, books etc., Sure, there are pockets of availability that is an exception, but not the kind of mainstream success that we have seen with open source software.

Re: The deception of “buying” digital movies

#176

Post by rthomas6 » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:54 PM UTC

iamacyborg wrote: post #83

rthomas6 wrote: post #47

I have started a modest Blu-Ray/4k Blu-Ray collection. For me, it is by far the best movie experience I've had with any format. It takes maybe 90 vs 20 seconds to get the movie playing, but in return I get noticeably better quality. 4k Blu-Rays' bitrates are around 128 Mb/s. For comparison, Netflix tops out around 17 Mb/s. It really does look and sound noticeably better if you have the TV and surround setup to take a…

I buy blurays, rip them and then store them on a NAS to play back via Plex. Much, much better quality than any stream from Netflix et al.

I thought about doing this, but I was worried about codec compatibility issues with Dolby Vision and Atmos, and DTS:whatever. Everything I've read says you need to buy an Nvidia Shield to do it right. This is probably even closer to ideal than my setup, but in the end I decided it's not worth the effort/cost vs just putting the disc in the player.

Re: The deception of “buying” digital movies

#177

Post by ClumsyPilot » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:56 PM UTC

abraxas wrote: post #12

stewx wrote: post #7

One under-appreciated limitation on digital movies is geographic restrictions. You buy a bunch of iTunes movies in Canada, then move to the USA, and you no longer have the right to watch them anymore due to licensing. Another significant issue with digital movies and games is the inability to resell the content once you're done with it. You can sell your DVDs at a yard sale or on eBay but not your iTunes movies. IMO,…

Unfortunately geolocking isn't new or unique to the pure bits movie format. DVDs were regionally locked as well and even analog media like VHS tapes used color encoding formats that were specific in different regions (NTSC vs PAL vs SECAM). That said, the situation is quite a bit worse now as the modern DRM is harder to circumvent and geolocking more granular than ever before. But the intent to lock us down was alway…

> geolocking isn't new or unique to the pure bits movie format

when governments ban imports / exports, its a matter of public scrutiny. So is protectionism.

But apparently we allow a private cartel to do the same thing to an enrire industry with no pushback.

This affects smart IoT devices, TVs, cars, etc. My xiaomi light does not pair with the app because its was meant for chinese market, and the guy that sold it to me claims its not hia problem either.

The only way out of this mess is a law to properly define digital ownership.

If you want a weired half renting half ownership, that should have to be explicit contract with a signature and maybe lawyers involved, so you know what you are signing up for.

Re: The deception of “buying” digital movies

#178

Post by vel0city » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:57 PM UTC

makeitdouble wrote: post #169

drstewart wrote: post #27

How big of a problem even is this? Serious question: who buys digital movies? I don't really know anyone who even buys movies at all anymore, but if they do it's likely they prefer a physical copy anyway. There's just so much content out there that the number of people that even care to rewatch a movie they've seen feels like it's really low.

Many new movies don't have a "streaming" license for a while and your only option is "buying" them. It's also cheaper if you have a family and don't intend to watch it together at once, or even in a single day. It's also more flexible regarding which device can play the movie (iTunes rentals were bound to the device clicking the play button lady time I tried) It's way more niche than a few decades ago, but there's a…

> your only option is "buying" them.

No, there's always another option: not watching the movie.

Re: The deception of “buying” digital movies

#179

Post by HideousKojima » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:59 PM UTC

abraxas wrote: post #12

stewx wrote: post #7

One under-appreciated limitation on digital movies is geographic restrictions. You buy a bunch of iTunes movies in Canada, then move to the USA, and you no longer have the right to watch them anymore due to licensing. Another significant issue with digital movies and games is the inability to resell the content once you're done with it. You can sell your DVDs at a yard sale or on eBay but not your iTunes movies. IMO,…

Unfortunately geolocking isn't new or unique to the pure bits movie format. DVDs were regionally locked as well and even analog media like VHS tapes used color encoding formats that were specific in different regions (NTSC vs PAL vs SECAM). That said, the situation is quite a bit worse now as the modern DRM is harder to circumvent and geolocking more granular than ever before. But the intent to lock us down was alway…

Geolocking kind of made sense back when we had incompatible standards like NTSC and PAL. It makes zero sense (except as rent-seeking behavior by rights holders) for Blu-ray and beyond.

Re: The deception of “buying” digital movies

#180

Post by astorsnk » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 2:59 PM UTC

AlecSchueler wrote: post #131

astorsnk wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> You buy a bunch of iTunes movies in Canada, then move to the USA, and you no longer have the right to watch them anymore due to licensing. Maybe this is true from the perspective of the license but it's not something Apple enforces through tech. For example, I have a two iTunes accounts for two countries. I can purchase content through both and use that content anywhere without restriction. They make it a big pain…

Maybe iTunes wasn't a good example but it has happened to me with other services. I live in the Netherlands where I bought a subscription for the Formula 1 TV service. Last year I was in the UK visiting family and was unable to watch races there, despite havng already paid for them, as the geo restrictions were different.

>> Last year I was in the UK visiting family and was unable to watch races there, despite havng already paid for them, as the geo restrictions were different.

Yep, thank sucks. You can thank brexit for that. AFAIK services offered in one EU country have to work throughout the EU (so if you were in Germany it would have worked). This meant that on holiday (coming from UK to Spain) a few years back I was able to watch F1 live on my phone via the NowTV/Sky app. This year - geo restricted.