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From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

jasonshen.com

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Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#311

Post by tbran »

subsubzero wrote: post #29
avgDev wrote: post #9

"The experience was physically taxing, he was diagnosed with tendonitis after moving hundreds of boxes a day, but it pulled him out of his depression and helped him gain perspective and a deeper sense of meaning"....... I have mixed feelings about this. What this has proven is working at amazon warehouse sucks, and is not sustainable. I've had many physical shitty jobs in my 20's. Then, I had some health issue and co…

I too had many shitty jobs in my early 20's and reading this article kinda triggered those job's bad memories and how much I hated working at those places. I remember even after getting into tech many years later I would sometimes have dreams where I would be back in one of those jobs having a minor case of PTSD. That being said there are other ways to do the type of career shift that the author wants. My Wife's cous…

I used to do landscaping. One morning I pulled my then-girlfriend out of bed by the legs because I was dreaming about dragging a tree into a hole. I moved a lot of heavy trees and shrubs in that job. Haha, memories!

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#313

Post by antiterra »

_gabe_ wrote: post #246
antiterra wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> The dude is literally bankrolled by the Koch Industries. This is just a straw man. Who cares who pays him? I could say the same thing for: Typescript. It's literally bankrolled by Microsoft, insert quip that says Typescript devs can't have good intentions here Tensorflow. It's literally bankrolled by Google, insert quip that says tensorflow devs can't have good intentions here React. It's literally bankrolled by Fa…

It’s not a straw man if I am replying directly to a claim:

> not just the mouthpiece of some think tank ad campaign.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#314

Post by tbran »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #275
kjeetgill wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not propaganda, it's a perspective. He's pretty involved in activism on the behalf of trades work, not just the mouthpiece of some think tank ad campaign.

> not just the mouthpiece of some think tank ad campaign. Uh huh. Here's his "worker's pledge." It is literally "be a good little peasant worker drone" bullshit: I believe that I have won the greatest lottery of all time. I am alive. I walk the Earth. I live in America. Above all things, I am grateful. I believe that I am entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Nothing more. I also understand that "ha…

I find this to be empowering, not offensive. Seems like it's mostly telling you that some things are in your control and some aren't, and that you're responsible for the stuff that's in your control. Frankly, this would be great for an entrepreneur.

I've had plenty of crappy jobs/bosses, but I can't think of one job where being bitter, entitled, or negative would have helped me.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#315

Post by ninefathom »

Philip isn't the only one. I followed a very similar path; after a decades-long career in tech, I was completely burned out. It was caused by different issues than Philip, but not incomparable ones: the repetitive nature of the challenges, seeing the same mistakes made repeatedly, never really getting to be "off the clock," etc.

Though I've since gone back into the technology industry, I spent a couple of years happily doing what many in the tech industry might consider "grunt jobs-" physically demanding, low pay, often dirty.

The first thing that I realized is that there is something deeply satisfying about hard manual labor, and the absence of that satisfaction in much of the tech industry is probably the source of some of the industry's most insidious mental health challenges. Many tech workers try to fill in that gap with "extracurriculars" like the gym, running marathons, or weekend camping trips. While all of those things are good and healthy and have their place, I can promise you that they don't fill the same psychological space as a full day of hard manual labor for a paycheck. As such, I make it a point to regularly take my PTO now to spend a day doing labor-intensive side jobs. That might sound crazy, but I can promise that it does wonders for mental health.

The second thing that I've learned is that there's an entire industry built up around trying to ease office workers' mental health issues, and it is both highly profitable and arguably predatory. If one so much as whispers about ditching a gym membership in favor of actually getting paid to do landscaping, or of selling that expensive treadmill in favor of walking dogs for several hours on weekends, be prepared for a veritable army of people to tell you that you're crazy. Surely millions of people can't be wrong, the argument goes. I can promise that you don't need to put a tenth of your paycheck back out into your extracurriculars to get that accomplished, tired-but-rewarded feeling.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#316

Post by ElfinTrousers »

symlinkk wrote: post #64
humanistbot wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all jobs had the same salary, benefits, career path, etc, there is no way I'd trade software development for a job involving strenuous physical labor.

I would. Imagine getting paid to be outdoors in the sun getting exercise. Imagine not having to spend an extra hour each day in a crowded gym doing boring repetitive movements because your sedentary job would ruin your body otherwise. Imagine not having posture and back problems at age 30. Imagine having the output of a hard days work be a physical object you can point to your son and say “see? I made that”.

If you think desk jobs are bad for your posture and back, I have some bad news about physical labor. But don't take my word for it: try it sometime.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#317

Post by ElfinTrousers »

Bakary wrote: post #239
symlinkk wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely wondering how you came up with that. How much do you think Americans have left after taxes and living expenses?

I'll walk back on the five years FAANG claim as I was venting a bit. But let's say you earn $200K (you'd start with less but end up with more at the 5 year mark), $135-165K take home, $105K if you save 70% of your salary. If we count compound interest, investments, stocks, healthcare savings due to generous SWE contracts, you could definitely achieve freedom if you wanted to with the 4% rule. It would require abandon…

Ok, but then you'd have spent your entire unrecoverable youth working for a FAANG. I realize this doesn't bother some people, and I don't understand that.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#318

Post by ElfinTrousers »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #275
kjeetgill wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not propaganda, it's a perspective. He's pretty involved in activism on the behalf of trades work, not just the mouthpiece of some think tank ad campaign.

> not just the mouthpiece of some think tank ad campaign. Uh huh. Here's his "worker's pledge." It is literally "be a good little peasant worker drone" bullshit: I believe that I have won the greatest lottery of all time. I am alive. I walk the Earth. I live in America. Above all things, I am grateful. I believe that I am entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Nothing more. I also understand that "ha…

"I believe that I have won the greatest lottery of all time...I live in America." And this is the point where my bullshit detector overheated and exploded.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#319

Post by ElfinTrousers »

markdown wrote: post #59
avgDev wrote: post #9

"The experience was physically taxing, he was diagnosed with tendonitis after moving hundreds of boxes a day, but it pulled him out of his depression and helped him gain perspective and a deeper sense of meaning"....... I have mixed feelings about this. What this has proven is working at amazon warehouse sucks, and is not sustainable. I've had many physical shitty jobs in my 20's. Then, I had some health issue and co…

[flagged]

I'd never heard of this guy before this morning (and I was happier then). Given his image, you'd think his Wikipedia page would be quick mention if he'd ever held a blue-collar job himself. Far as I can tell, however, he has only worked a a TV personality and opera singer.

Given that, and the fact that his spiel below is exactly what I'd want my employees to believe if I were a rich sociopath, my conclusion is that he's a shill, pure and simple.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#320

Post by ElfinTrousers »

thrown_22 wrote: post #201
XorNot wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is that the software I have built is speeding up everything. Your high salary isn't "justified" by anything except current market supply and demand. Which is to some extent, very much the natural case in point: a software developer is no value to me if what I need is a carpenter.

Supply and demand only work in the short term as an explanation why something costs the amount it does _right now_. Once enough time has passed for the markets to adjust then there is something fundamental that causes them to be stuck at a given level. Software development is applied autism. There aren't many people on the spectrum and the ones of us lucky enough to be interested in computers (instead of say model tr…

> Supply and demand only work in the short term as an explanation why something costs the amount it does _right now_. Once enough time has passed for the markets to adjust then there is something fundamental that causes them to be stuck at a given level.

[citation needed]

> Software development is applied autism.

[citation needed]

> Or to put it another way: there are no other professions that can make 10 million for their employers in an afternoon by thinking really hard.

The entire finance industry called and wants to have a word. Not that I'm a fan of theirs, but perhaps you should think harder next time before you post.

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