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Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

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Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#861

Post by deepl_derber »

Jochim wrote: post #796
deepl_derber wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The idea that the only cure for discrimination is discrimination is akin to saying the only cure for violence is violence. It’s abject insanity that such a notion is being advanced in society. Absolutely not. The idea that any of this is fixable with 'forgiveness' is far more insane. You can't undo hundreds of years of systematic disenfranchisement and subjugation with forgiveness - you have to discriminate in the o…

> To quote LBJ, "You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say, ‘You are free to compete with all the others,’ and still justly believe that you have been completely fair." That's what Kendi is saying, and he's completely right. My problem with this quote is it intentionally ignores the plight of anyone who has nothing an…

Where Kendi and I (appear to, I haven't read his book) disagree is the idea that your antiracist policies must be _explicitly_ discriminatory to work. You can implement universal social goods like "everyone gets housing and health care" which in practice give far more to black people (because on average they're starting further back) but which apply to everyone and get the right outcome.

Certainly I wouldn't argue for a second that we should implement policies that ignore or exclude poor white people.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#862

Post by deepl_derber »

LawTalkingGuy wrote: post #834
deepl_derber wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the talk page indicates is that the article is correct, despite what a number of skull-measuring right-wingers would like you to believe. Wikipedia doesn't have a left-leaning bias, reality does.

The talk page, and Quillette article, are proof that Wiki entries needs to contain the discredited sources too, and the properly sourced criticisms of them of course, rather than simply deleting them. Wiki rules are tools to build better content, not absolutes we must die on. If 90% of readers of an entry find it lacking or untrustworthy because it doesn't mention well-known studies or even fields of endeavor then it…

Quillette articles are rarely proof of more than the ability of deranged conservatives to get nonsense published.

>Do you believe that acceptance of the theory that genes impact IQ is split along communist/non-communist lines?

Maybe. I think the idea that genes impact IQ and that IQ actually usefully measures anything - certainly anything that could be described as 'intelligence' - is probably split that way.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#863

Post by [deleted] »

illuminerdy wrote: post #724
deepl_derber wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the talk page indicates is that the article is correct, despite what a number of skull-measuring right-wingers would like you to believe. Wikipedia doesn't have a left-leaning bias, reality does.

> "Wikipedia doesn't have a left-leaning bias, reality does." It's impossible to take you seriously when you say things like this.

[deleted]

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#864

Post by deepl_derber »

illuminerdy wrote: post #724
deepl_derber wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the talk page indicates is that the article is correct, despite what a number of skull-measuring right-wingers would like you to believe. Wikipedia doesn't have a left-leaning bias, reality does.

> "Wikipedia doesn't have a left-leaning bias, reality does." It's impossible to take you seriously when you say things like this.

I'm comfortable with right-wingers not taking me seriously, since I return the favor with pleasure.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#865

Post by tptacek »

rayiner wrote: post #858
tptacek wrote: post #806

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing's changed. I think Kendi is an ideological grifter. It's frustrating to see "normie" anti-racism, of the "BLM lawn sign" variety, tainted by association with him.

I don’t think he’s a “grifter.” Kendi thought is just the logical combination of three mainstream progressive ideas: 1) (a) The history and experience of Black people in America is sui generis and (b) justifies responses that don’t need to be generalizable or measure up to ordinary standards of procedural fairness. 2) the “bootstraps”approach of Kendi’s parent’s generation has failed. 3) bureaucratic institutions ope…

I don't want to get too far into it, so I'll just say:

1. Virtually nobody with a BLM lawn sign believes this: https://twitter.com/DrIbram/status/1302724276412387334

2. I can't do any better than Kalefa Sanneh at pointing out the incoherence of Kendi's professed world view. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/08/19/the-fight-to-r...

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#866

Post by eyelidlessness »

hbrn wrote: post #803
eyelidlessness wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Actual discrimination and hate and violence are also active and ongoing. That was my point. You can’t forgive someone for transgressions they’re determined to continue. I can forgive people for something that happened to me 25 years ago because it’s in the past. That’s the relevance of my story. I can’t forgive people who are going to do the same to me tomorrow. And no one forgiving them while they still pursue…

> hate and violence are also active and ongoing > You can’t forgive someone for transgressions they’re determined to continue My understanding is that hate and violence in the last few decades have been steadily declining. At the same time, self-reported perception of those has been increasing since ~2014. Maybe there's eluding racism we can all feel but cannot measure. Or maybe a side effect of changes to social net…

There has been a massive resurgence of hate groups and hate crimes in recent years. Some of it has barely been discussed at all.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#867

Post by [deleted] »

orf wrote: post #454
nilespotter wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opportunities and rights on the one hand, outcomes on the other. e.g. - Equality: We are both free to operate in an open market to secure the best outcomes for ourselves - Equity: You made $1000, I made $100, we both get $550 Wokes will bend over backwards to paint equality as an impossible project, claiming that it is doomed because of historical white supremacy, generational oppression, moon phases, etc. We're aske…

There’s a lot of nonsense to unpack in that comment. Equity is not “literally communism”, it’s the pretty simple understanding that if you always start 40 meters ahead of someone in a 100 meter race, you’re likely to always finish first and they won’t have a chance. So we put more (and therefore unequal) resources into helping the competitor who’s having to run 40 more meters than you.

[deleted]

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#868

Post by raxxorraxor »

brightball wrote: post #572

He’s right to do so. Statements that your research must be presented with a filter based on how it will advance political goals calls into question the integrity of all research. When people don’t “trust the science” this will be why. But further, I’d never seen the statement from antiracist before…wow. The idea that the only cure for discrimination is discrimination is akin to saying the only cure for violence is vi…

The problem with him resigning is that only conformant people remain. These are unlikely to further science as well.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#869

Post by raxxorraxor »

quacked wrote: post #752
rayiner wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But further, I’d never seen the statement from antiracist before…wow. The idea that the only cure for discrimination is discrimination is akin to saying the only cure for violence is violence. It’s abject insanity that such a notion is being advanced in society. Kendi is just advocating for a system of racial preferences administered by "good white people." That's been a hobby horse of a segment of the political le…

Is the reason that he wants it administered by "good white people" because every other ethnic group (including the "bad white people") is nakedly self-interested when it comes to racial preference?

You are 100 years late for people in power to care about race. With exception of how some of them distribute their self-serving racial justice. Self-serving, because they can remain among the enlightened and generally better people.
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