Relevant article from the CBC about maternal deaths in Canada: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-maternal-deaths-underc...
That’s chilling and eye opening.
Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees
171–180 of 187 posts
Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not just that, but planning to make contraception illegal. Probably sex-ed too.
You're being downvoted because there is no way in hell that the Republican party will push for restrictions on contraception. After all, both their politicians and their court nominees insisted that abortion is a long-settled issue, and have not reneged on it the second they had the power to - we can trust them to continue operating in good faith, and in a matter that respects public opinion.
GOP SCOTUS Justice Thomas has posited that everything is on the table: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/24/thomas-constitution...
At the risk of hurting the feelings of party members, I do not associate "good faith" with them.
Edit: I missed the sarcasm. Poe's Law, ya know.
Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees
#173This article is disturbing on many levels. The sound bite that the US has a problem with maternity healthcare is ingrained, but this makes me take a second look. First is that we report maternal mortality even when not directly associated with birth -- "Among pregnancy-related deaths with information on timing, 53% occurred 7–365 days postpartum." Is that standard for reporting countries? Is our problem with maternit…
USA is the richest country of the world and does not have paid maternity leave. It is very weird and my hypothesis is that this fact relates to these mental health conditions.
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Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you saying the solution to maternity related deaths is abortion here? Eliminating maternal death by eliminating maternity? I don't understand.
The core of the argument is that for a significant number of these deaths (especially mental health or substance abuse related), if the mothers had been allowed to abort the baby, they would be in addition allowed to get the mental health or substance abuse issues under control. Of course, they might not get those issues under control. They might still have died of substance abuse or suicide. But the stress of being…
Postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis are common mental illnesses. Postpartum.
These are women who don’t present with symptoms of mental illness until after birth.
This isn’t an edge case. This is common.
How is abortion going to help here?
Also … you say:
> if the mothers had been allowed to abort the baby, they would be in addition allowed to get the mental health or substance abuse issues under control.
There are lots of social services available to pregnant women and new mothers. Including screening for mental illness. Are similar services available to women undergoing abortions? You seem to imply there are.
Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Poor is relative. Free education including university for all kids you can possibly spawn, free good healthcare just to name 2 most of the most expensive pain points in existence as american citizen. Your taxes very often directly support killing poor civilians half around the globe, as it has been much of the last 2 decades, for less than 0 added value to anything positive to mankind. Supporting Ukraine is nice and…
> If you get fired, how much support do you get from the state? A better question is, why should the state support people getting fired? > If you would travel to those places, you would find stark differences in real quality of life which can't be easily measured by simple aggregate numbers, people's happiness and life satisfaction. I did: oh yeah it's nice, as a tourist. But here is no amount of money you could pay…
> oh yeah it's nice, as a tourist
See, you admit it yourself - you went as a tourist. Thus you have clue how people actually live, how happy they are etc. Europe is cca 30 very different and diverse states and you clearly saw tiny fraction since what you state is simply not true in quite a few.
For my case point - I've lived in US, LA and Maine. While I loved common folks for their openness, the system is utterly fucked up for me and I would never want to live and raise my kids there, regardless of paycheck (which as I stated is useless measure since its not what you save if you actually live and manage to get old). Also - high criminality, police state and messed up jail system, workoholism attitude, effective class system based on career/income/wealth. And so on.
Since you don't react to that use of your tax money to wage wars and killing of hundreds of thousands of innocents I guess you don't care about that at all.
Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees
#176I'd like to know more detail about the methodology and definition of "preventable." My sister's death in 2017 while 8 months pregnant is (apparently) included in this data, but I wonder how they would rate it. She experienced sudden cardiac death, but had no prior indication anything was wrong with her heart, and no symptoms that would otherwise cause someone to examine her heart. Had anyone examined it, they might h…
From the article: > A death is considered preventable if the committee determines that there was at least some chance of the death being averted by one or more reasonable changes to patient, community, provider, facility, and/or systems factors. MMRIA allows MMRCs to document preventability decisions in two ways: (1) determining preventability as a yes or no, and/or 2) determining the chance to alter the outcome by u…
Yes, I read this, but it's too vague to answer my question, which is the point of my post.
"Some chance"? " Reasonable changes"? "System factors"?
Cardiac ultrasounds are fairly inexpensive. There is some chance of discovering critical heart problems through them through a systems change. And heart replacement surgery would likely be covered by insurance anyway, so is not an unreasonable new cost to the system.
I can't determine what their decision in her case would have been by the criteria they did list, which is why I said I would be interested in more details.
Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees
#177I'd like to know more detail about the methodology and definition of "preventable." My sister's death in 2017 while 8 months pregnant is (apparently) included in this data, but I wonder how they would rate it. She experienced sudden cardiac death, but had no prior indication anything was wrong with her heart, and no symptoms that would otherwise cause someone to examine her heart. Had anyone examined it, they might h…
Sorry for your loss. "Sudden cardiac death" is more of a description than a diagnosis, so it's hard to say. You may be being intentionally vague for her privacy, which makes sense. Common causes vary widely, from cardiac dysrhythmia (perhaps due to pregnancy-related cardiomyopathy or an electrolyte imbalance?) or a pulmonary embolism... I'd say the level of "preventability" depends on the etiology.
Unfortunately I'm being vague because the ME couldn't draw a conclusion.
I've had three doctors read it to make sure I'm not missing anything (including the cardiologist I saw as a result), and they've all said, "It says her heart muscle just died, for no clear reason. It speculates about a heritable cardiac channelopathy, which is why you and your brother needed cardiac ultrasounds and stress tests, but ultimately they don't actually know why her heart died."
It's as close to a diagnosis as we'll ever have.
Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees
#178I'd like to know more detail about the methodology and definition of "preventable." My sister's death in 2017 while 8 months pregnant is (apparently) included in this data, but I wonder how they would rate it. She experienced sudden cardiac death, but had no prior indication anything was wrong with her heart, and no symptoms that would otherwise cause someone to examine her heart. Had anyone examined it, they might h…
There are amenable and non-amenable medical errors. The above article is describing amenable medical errors. I don’t want to make assumptions about how your sister’s death would be classified. However, I am so sorry for your loss, which is a tragedy. We need to do better, as this should not be happening.
I don't think there were any errors here, and I didn't get the impression this was only evaluating errors.
I don't think her doctors missed anything that ought to have been caught. She seemed completely fine five minutes before she was irrecoverably dead (i.e., her heart muscle hadn't just stopped, but part of it had died).
And that's what confuses me about this rating system for evaluating what was and wasn't preventable. My best guess is that there truly wasn't anything anyone should have done, that it was just a freak thing that happened.
And I guess that's emotionally simpler. The grief isn't any less deep, but it's not complicated by anger. "Sometimes bad things just happen with no warning" sucks, but it's not complicated.
I suppose I do have a bias toward continuing to assume that's true in her case, for my own sake.
Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
All cause mortality / total excess death statistics solve most of these issues and was remarkably higher during Covid... https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/dataviz8737/viz/COVID...
I don't think Covid killed literally 0 people. But there's more than 1 reasonable explanation for at least some of these excess deaths, including looking at the Covid countermeasures themselves. Suicides and other deaths of despair? People who couldn't get their required cancer and other treatments? What about the attempted medical treatments for Covid? We're not going to agree on this, I imagine, but there's a lot m…
Sure, but when the excess death charts match up extremely well with study after study from epidemiologists where they were assessing covid deaths, it becomes pretty likely that we actually did pretty well counting covid deaths at the time and it was just as bad as scientists were saying during the pandemic. There could have also been an increase in the so called deaths of despair during this time, but we also measure those very reliably so they're easy to parse out.
Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
At a federal level no, but some states do require many weeks at minimum. I also think 9months is beyond excessive for maternity/paternity leave (father of kids here).
Unpopular opinion: paternity leave doesn't need to be multiple months long in the vast majority of situations. Maternity leave is different of course. Six weeks is luxuriously long for the most common situation. Perhaps on your first child you should get a bit more. Nine months is excessive for paternity leave. I can't comment to maternity leave, but it would make more sense there. Long paternity leave drives everyon…
Are you kidding? Six weeks is laughably short for paternity leave. Taking care of a 2 month old is a 24/7 job and doing it with two people is insanely difficult, that people are forced to do it with one is mindboggling.