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From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

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Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#151

Post by Bakary »

orev wrote: post #41
gnrlst wrote: post #23

I have a sense of guilt when I compare myself to my high school friends who have to work longer, work harder, and get paid significantly less. They are just as smart, they just made different choices. And this sense of guilt and of feeling like I don't deserve it just compounds the imposter syndrome to the point I can't even enjoy what I have because I think that at any moment I'll be "discovered" and lose everything…

> They are just as smart, they just made different choices. Most people fall within a similar range of intelligence, and where they end up in life is far more a result of the choices they made than how smart they are. So you made a bunch of choices, like learning tech, etc, and they made a bunch of choices, like maybe partying instead of studying, and now you get to enjoy the rewards. You shouldn’t feel guilty about…

I don't think guilt is helpful, but this logic has some issues. You obviously cannot have everyone be a coder. And becoming a coder takes many intervening steps of which choices are only one factor. Being born in a developed country (heck only the US has those truly insane salaries), having a natural interest for it, having universities and the means to study, living in a safe home etc. these are all unearned yet make up 90% of the end result.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#152

Post by thrown_22 »

tristor wrote: post #61

I read the article, and... I get it. But something about this just seems weird to me. I grew up mostly on a family farm, worked every day of my life in some capacity since I was 9 or 10 years old, and did shit jobs to pay for college (which I eventually dropped out of right before graduation). I don't think my route into tech is that different from many of the other folks I've worked with... this guy lived a /very/ c…

Life is fundamentally unpleasant and once you have your basic daily needs met you have time to develop mental issues. In the west basically everyone including the homeless don't have to worry about being eaten, murdered, starving or dying from exposure. This leaves a lot of leeway for everyone to think how bad they have it while historically being in the top 1%.

It's rather hard to have empathy for someone who has it better than you. But I've found it helps to also remind yourself that the majority of people who ever lived will feel the same way about you.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#154

Post by dnissley »

tristor wrote: post #61

I read the article, and... I get it. But something about this just seems weird to me. I grew up mostly on a family farm, worked every day of my life in some capacity since I was 9 or 10 years old, and did shit jobs to pay for college (which I eventually dropped out of right before graduation). I don't think my route into tech is that different from many of the other folks I've worked with... this guy lived a /very/ c…

I think part of that feeling is coming from how we've been socialized in the middle/upper classes to perceive people with lower incomes working more physical jobs than us.

It's no longer acceptable to be snooty towards people in these positions, but we haven't dropped the stigma totally, and now the acceptable way to view + interact with them is to act (in the performative sense, because many of us don't actually know) with deference, assuming that their lives are truly miserable and their dignity is on the line every day they work such jobs. The expectation is that we must feel sorry for them and treat them better than other people because of it, or treat them with kid gloves.

When you adopt such a stance, the idea of someone willingly going and doing one of these terrible no good jobs does seem patronizing -- it's masochistic even, and so is viewed as suspect and "touristy". When someone does such a thing they are "disrespecting themselves" by people with this view. If anyone ever tries to provide and alternative view and tell us that most people's lives in these positions aren't so bad by going and experiencing it themselves, however partially, we heap scorn on them. "They don't know what it's really like, it's horrible what these people have to do." "They have millions of dollars in the bank so their experience can be dismissed." Etc.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#155

Post by Bakary »

I'm perhaps repeating myself from the other thread but this post angered me more than I expected it to. Other commenters have picked up on it too, but many others seem not to see it. This sort of poverty tourism is actually really twisted and indicative of some very grim aspects of our world. I'm curious as to what the author thinks or whether they are aware of this.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#156

Post by rib3ye »

Bakary wrote: post #155

I'm perhaps repeating myself from the other thread but this post angered me more than I expected it to. Other commenters have picked up on it too, but many others seem not to see it. This sort of poverty tourism is actually really twisted and indicative of some very grim aspects of our world. I'm curious as to what the author thinks or whether they are aware of this.

Why does someone trying to understand something through first-hand experience get an -ism? I wish every white-collar role, especially c-suite and director level person at Amazon took the time to work on the warehouse floor, first-hand.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#158

Post by hnuser847 »

wnolens wrote: post #144

Similar story with me. Except I ended up in AWS! Worked in different big tech for 7y, and took a sabbatical because I could, and so why not? Well after a year of travelling and working on my own ideas and a bit of contract work, I entered a complete pit of depression. I mean contemplating ending it all to stop the pain. Instead big daddy Bezos was handing out tech jobs like candy so I took one begrudgingly just to ha…

Can you help me understand this perspective? Was there really nothing you wanted to do with your life that you had to resort to getting a corporate job to keep yourself sane? A guy a used to work with went through the same thing recently after his startup was acquired. I’m not sure how much he made, but I’m pretty sure he’s set for life. He stayed retired for about six months before getting bored and getting another job. It’s just completely baffling to me.

I want to sail the world. That is my one and only dream in this life. If I made enough money to retire, that’s what I would do. I would never dream of getting another job just to fill the time.

Granted, I’ve never been retired and probably won’t be for a very long time, so I don’t know for sure what it would feel like. But this perspective that retirement is boring and/or soul crushing just doesn’t compute with me. Maybe I’m missing something.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#159

Post by Bakary »

rib3ye wrote: post #156
Bakary wrote: post #155

I'm perhaps repeating myself from the other thread but this post angered me more than I expected it to. Other commenters have picked up on it too, but many others seem not to see it. This sort of poverty tourism is actually really twisted and indicative of some very grim aspects of our world. I'm curious as to what the author thinks or whether they are aware of this.

Why does someone trying to understand something through first-hand experience get an -ism? I wish every white-collar role, especially c-suite and director level person at Amazon took the time to work on the warehouse floor, first-hand.

But there is no actual understanding. The person in question thinks it's a quaint little experience. The part about the food takeout illustrates this well: no comprehension about actually having to do this sort of labor your entire life. If this article does not seem like parody straight out of HBO's Silicon Valley I am not sure what to say

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#160

Post by kQq9oHeAz6wLLS »

BurningFrog wrote: post #141
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What this has proven is working at amazon warehouse sucks, and is not sustainable. This person went from a 23-year career sitting at a desk to doing physical labor all day. Any physical labor is going to take a toll on someone in their 40s who hasn't been doing physical labor. I have a lot of people in my extended social circle who are in physical labor jobs. Amazon Warehouse jobs are always viewed as the "easy" fa…

You can also write a very similar rant about how sedentary desk jobs are not sustainable with all the obesity related life shortening conditions it leads to :)

I think the takeaway is none of us is getting out of this alive.
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