Live data from Hacker News

From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

jasonshen.com

131–140 of 352 posts

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#131
post #47
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How dare he find meaning in things that are different from you. Congratulations on figuring out how to find fulfillment and a balanced life before the rest of us. Philip's journey toward that is clearly different from yours.

There is a difference between enduring hardships because you want to for fun, and enduring it because you must to earn money. It reads like a slap in the face

Something about what you said triggered a memory in me. I remember a story about how westerners embraced meditation and how monks described how they ( westerners allowed into the monastery ) completely missed its point by enjoying staring into sand, when it was in theory supposed to induce boredom.

I will admit that I am not sure how I feel about the article. I might be still processing it.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#132
post #61

I read the article, and... I get it. But something about this just seems weird to me. I grew up mostly on a family farm, worked every day of my life in some capacity since I was 9 or 10 years old, and did shit jobs to pay for college (which I eventually dropped out of right before graduation). I don't think my route into tech is that different from many of the other folks I've worked with... this guy lived a /very/ c…

It almost feels like... tourism? to me?

Hard to explain, but I get what you mean.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#133
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devs can get by working few hours a day, some barely do any work at all Not sure how others here feel, but I have to say that when I've found myself in situations where there isn't much work to be done I find it utterly soul destroying. Always feel guilty doing anything else in down-time when I'm billing a client and so sometimes end up sitting in a weird stand by mode, feeling like I'm somehow being lazy.

It's not lazy. If I go for a walk I'm actively thinking about projects. I have solved many problem by just clearing my mind and taking breaks. Building software should not be paid by the hour. It's a weird thing. If I can build a piece of software in 10 hours, and another dev needs 40 hours....it seems kind of odd to pay the slower less resourceful dev MORE for a slower delivery?

So I consider taking a walk to clear your mind part of work for sure. I also consider reading HN or other engineering news/continued education sites to be part of work. And taking a coffee break to chat with co-workers about whatever (back when we worked in an office), including big-picture stuff and non-work related stuff, sure, that too.

That's all part of work when you do this kind of work. You can not just write code 8 hours a day, indeed, it's impossible, and if an employer tries to make you work that kind of sweat-shop environment (sometimes it seems like that's the actual goal of some Scrum implementations), it won't actually get them your best or even most productive work.

But there are people on HN who say that they literally spend the majority of their day the majority of days just doing things that are not work at all. I dunno, watching TV, running errands, riding their bike, mindlessly social media'ing, playing video games. Like they only spend a few hours a week on anything related to work at all.

I agree with GP that for me that's utterly soul-destroying, I end up feeling useless and unmoored. (The other day on the radio I heard someone reference a study that busy-ness to life satisfaction graphed as an upside down U, if you have too little free/leisure time you are unhappy, but people with too much are unhappy too, there's a sweet spot in the middle. Perhaps that's what we're talking about here).

But maybe different people are different.

Or maybe in new remote world, if you spend that time on projects you find rewarding (writing poetry, I dunno) instead of just goofing off, then it's not really "leisure" anymore, and you won't have that problem. If also you don't have any ethical problems with it (maybe your employer is awful and deserves to be drained of money), or just worry about getting caught.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#134
post #61

I read the article, and... I get it. But something about this just seems weird to me. I grew up mostly on a family farm, worked every day of my life in some capacity since I was 9 or 10 years old, and did shit jobs to pay for college (which I eventually dropped out of right before graduation). I don't think my route into tech is that different from many of the other folks I've worked with... this guy lived a /very/ c…

Maybe it's less patronising, and more just blindingly obvious to those of us who have had crap jobs in the past?

Having grown up adjacent to upper-middle class people (I'm arguably entering that sphere now, but I definitely didn't start there), I think a bunch of them could benefit from hearing this story from one of their peers.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#135
There's something strangely satisfying in hard physical labor. When I do stuff at home, like renovations, installing stuff, gardening, or doing car stuff, even house cleaning, I get a strange kind of euphoria that I don't get even when doing stuff like working out in a gym or cycling, at least, not at the same degree.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all jobs had the same salary, benefits, career path, etc, there is no way I'd trade software development for a job involving strenuous physical labor.

I would. Imagine getting paid to be outdoors in the sun getting exercise. Imagine not having to spend an extra hour each day in a crowded gym doing boring repetitive movements because your sedentary job would ruin your body otherwise. Imagine not having posture and back problems at age 30. Imagine having the output of a hard days work be a physical object you can point to your son and say “see? I made that”.

If you are an American SWE or have a corresponding salary, you pretty much only have to work for 10 or so years before retiring, assuming you learn how personal finance works and learn to live without a fancy car or any status-related possessions.

Heck you could do it in 5 years if you are a FAANG employee.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#137
Interesting story. I can easily see how the responsibilities of being in charge of a decent-sized company can wear you down..however I do not personally believe there would be so much fatigue though.

I am curious to hear stories from HN folks here who have been through similar trajectories

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#138
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How dare he find meaning in things that are different from you. Congratulations on figuring out how to find fulfillment and a balanced life before the rest of us. Philip's journey toward that is clearly different from yours.

I just find it kind of worrisome that he finds meaning in work that other people are exploited for for a lack of better options. Why would a financially independent person choose to help enrich a large corporation over, say, voluntary work to help underprivileged people, animals or whatever else you can think of?

> I just find it kind of worrisome that he finds meaning in work that other people are exploited for for a lack of better options.

I think viewing every warehouse worker as a member of a lower labor caste who is merely being exploited is not a warranted view. The fact that people can easily find meaning in this labor is further indication it is incorrect.

You're also presuming a rather tyrannical existence for these people.. wherein their path through life must be dictated to them by their "best options." People make suboptimal choices for all kinds of reasons, and they don't view their circumstances as being "exploited." Probably because the companies they work for didn't _create_ the suboptimal choices for them in the first place, their employer is a matter of circumstance, not conspiracy.

> Why would a financially independent person choose to help enrich a large corporation over, say, voluntary work to help underprivileged people, animals or whatever else you can think of?

Again.. people make suboptimal choices intentionally. The explanation here is "this is a very low risk option that can be exited immediately if such a whim arises." And in all likelihood, exiting in this way wouldn't prevent you from being hired back later if your fortunes or whims reverse.

Forgive me, but you seem to be a little too comfortable looking down your nose at these people.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all jobs had the same salary, benefits, career path, etc, there is no way I'd trade software development for a job involving strenuous physical labor.

I would. Imagine getting paid to be outdoors in the sun getting exercise. Imagine not having to spend an extra hour each day in a crowded gym doing boring repetitive movements because your sedentary job would ruin your body otherwise. Imagine not having posture and back problems at age 30. Imagine having the output of a hard days work be a physical object you can point to your son and say “see? I made that”.

You just described what a weekend home project is like, not a real blue-collar job.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#140

This person seems like they are suffering from typical tech bubble non-awareness disease. They always strive to make the world a better place as… a director of Facebook. Debatable. Early retirement is such a nightmare for me that.. I became an Amazon Warehouse Associate out of boredom? I’m not sure how any of this narcissism is making the world a better place.

Did you actually read the article? He's probably the one person in tech that is directly aware of what it's like to work at a warehouse because he actually did it for real. He's not claiming to be "making the world a better place" by working at Facebook. He's telling the story of how he got burned out from that world and sought out a real "honest labor" job that he'd heard a ton about in the media to snap out of it a…

He learned what a grueling job was for a few weeks. He did not learn what it means when that grueling job is your past, present, and/or future. The part about the takeout food seals that impression
Post reply on HN