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A near-disaster at a nuclear weapons lab takes toll on America’s arsenal (2017)

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Re: A near-disaster at a nuclear weapons lab takes toll on America’s arsenal (2017)

#171
post #13

The US has an interesting history of poor safety around nuclear related facilities. Not far from Denver is a great example with some interesting history. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Flats_Plant#:~:text=Th... .

Looks like Rockwell was fined a little bit, and nobody was actually tried despite a Grand Jury identifying several people who should have been. One guy responsible got cancer.

Re: A near-disaster at a nuclear weapons lab takes toll on America’s arsenal (2017)

#172
post #20
post #15

Today I learned: don't bring radioactive material close together... I know about criticality. But I always thought you needed a conventional explosive to kickstart the chain reaction.

To make it explode you are correct, you need to bring a lot of material together very fast. This explains the difference between the two types: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prompt_criticality

You can get an explosion without. (Cf. Chernobyl and Fukushima.) Just not the mushroom cloud.

Re: A near-disaster at a nuclear weapons lab takes toll on America’s arsenal (2017)

#174

My favorite nuclear disaster! Criticality events. I lived in Los Alamos for a while. I looked into renting a studio space. I became curious about the property across the street from my prospective rental which was surrounded by a chain link fence with green canvas. I researched and learned it was the site of an original Manhattan site waste dump which had, a few years prior, been enclosed with a negative pressure ten…

This sounds like the same story as Rocky Flats west of Denver. Same thing, after "Cleanup" it's a (still radioactive) nature preserve and housing development now.

The world is full of radioactivity, including the banana you eat and the partner you sleep next to. What matters is the amount, is it dangerous?

Re: A near-disaster at a nuclear weapons lab takes toll on America’s arsenal (2017)

#175
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t that happen in every manufacturing or dangerous environment? I always assumed the bubba said or similar euphemisms exist everywhere

If true, that sounds like a serious indictment of manufacturing power sources with the ability to destroy a good portion of the Earth. That does remind me of the incident where a technician dropped a socket off a wrench and quite nearly detonated a 9 megaton bomb in Arkansas.

"destroy a good portion of the Earth."

For a value of "destroy" equal to "detectable increase in cancer risk" maybe.

Re: A near-disaster at a nuclear weapons lab takes toll on America’s arsenal (2017)

#176

My favorite nuclear disaster! Criticality events. I lived in Los Alamos for a while. I looked into renting a studio space. I became curious about the property across the street from my prospective rental which was surrounded by a chain link fence with green canvas. I researched and learned it was the site of an original Manhattan site waste dump which had, a few years prior, been enclosed with a negative pressure ten…

I wonder why they didn't travel further to dump it. The ocean in particular was a popular dumping ground in Europe after world war 2 for anything toxic related to the war. Old warships was loaded to max and intentionally moved and then sunk in an undocumented regions in order to make sure that no one could recover it.

Re: A near-disaster at a nuclear weapons lab takes toll on America’s arsenal (2017)

#177
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you continued to read the article, you'd see that there was a culture of throwing caution to the wind to increase productivity at not only that lab, but other nuclear facilities around the world. Hell, the article even went on to say that workers at the facility even came up with a euphemism for orders that ignored basic safety protocols, they called them "Bubba said" orders. And the article said that after those…

> And the article said that after those criticality events, those in charge of the facility and safety of personnel just had people keep working instead of evacuating. And how exactly did they convince those employees to keep working? The employees are not making extra for not following rules, do people really just not care about their lives? (I don't for a second believe someone working in a nuclear lab would be una…

> do people really just not care about their lives?

Nuclear in general is very over regulated and over safety conscious. This leads to many pointless or overly cautious rules, which slow things down and lead to people ignoring ALL the rules, including th important ones.

Re: A near-disaster at a nuclear weapons lab takes toll on America’s arsenal (2017)

#178
post #98
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A safety incident that results in the unsafe worker or someone with him dying is usually considered a regrettable occurrence. A safety issue that could irradiate a portion of the city is a bit higher. Same reason we investigate air and rail incidents much more than we investigate most car crashes.

It's true, but the risk of that is fairly small. There were 60 publicly disclosed criticality accidents from 01945 to 01999 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticality_accident#Known_inc... causing a total of 21 deaths, though for some reason that list doesn't include Chernobyl, which killed 31 people directly and about 6000 people over the years. But you aren't going to get a Chernobyl-style disaster from a criticalit…

> about 6000 people over the years.

Note that this is heavy disputed, with estimates going from under 100 to the hundreds of thousands.

Re: A near-disaster at a nuclear weapons lab takes toll on America’s arsenal (2017)

#179

God, nukes and everything about them is terrifying. I'm sure people working at plants that make conventional explosives aren't exposed to such risks, not even close. I think that we lack the technology to make such things safely. It's unfortunate that robotics is such a failed science, because no one should be handling anything remotely close to criticality with rubber gloves. It's 2022 but when it comes to our abili…

> I'm sure people working at plants that make conventional explosives aren't exposed to such risks, not even close.

I'd expect the opposite tbh. More dangerous dust inhalation in the explosives plant.

Re: A near-disaster at a nuclear weapons lab takes toll on America’s arsenal (2017)

#180

So I guess it turns out that Homer Simpson was more realistic than we thought... all the way through to only avoiding nuclear accidents through sheer luck.

More Simpsons prescience: I believe it is Lenny who observes, when Homer is running for the office of town garbage collection supremo, "Eh, Homer's a great nuclear safety technician, but I don't know if I trust him with my garbage".
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