Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cobra Maneuver

en.wikipedia.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 160 posts

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#111

Post by ivalm »

mizzao wrote: post #108
unity1001 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately the circumstances where this is useful is very limited. Even worse: Advancing missile technology has mostly invalidated the need for aircraft in a major war since a long while, and drones will literally sweep what's left of it. The Iranian drones' amazing performance in Ukraine shows that warfare has changed forever. The drones can travel 1700 km autonomously, very hard to jam, and they are cheaper th…

Are you referring to the Turkish Bayraktars or a different drone?

No, Russians are buying Iranian drones that are surprisingly capable. Also funny that Russians are so behind the times that they need to buy advanced military tech from Iran.

Edit: apparently Russians have advanced but uneconomical drones, Iran strikes a better balance!

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#112

Post by philwelch »

hatsunearu wrote: post #10

Unfortunately the circumstances where this is useful is very limited. You'd have to be in very close range and in a very bad disadvantage, which honestly doesn't last long (you'd blow up very fast) and when you start decelerating you become a very easy target to hit. And after your opponent overshoots--you just lost a ton of energy--and energy is everything in aerial combat. Energy is the currency you spend to maneuv…

And that's assuming that the fight hasn't already been decided from BVR with radar-guided missiles in the first place.

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#113

Post by unity1001 »

ivalm wrote: post #111
mizzao wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you referring to the Turkish Bayraktars or a different drone?

No, Russians are buying Iranian drones that are surprisingly capable. Also funny that Russians are so behind the times that they need to buy advanced military tech from Iran. Edit: apparently Russians have advanced but uneconomical drones, Iran strikes a better balance!

That's not the case. Russian suicide drones seem to be WAY too advanced - it is said that they are so silent that you can't even hear them until they dive for the hit.

From there comes the advantage of the Iranian drones - they make a lot of noise and you can hear them from miles away. But they are WAY cheaper. So you can just swarm the air defences using them. And if the enemy actually uses missiles to hit them, it evaluates to a result like the Iranian drone having shot down the more expensive defense missile because the drone is way cheaper.

...

Iran defense industry just proved that in the current environment there is no need for drones to be that advanced like Russians' drones: The existing defense setups are SO unprepared and so behind in countering drone technology that you can just use simple, cheap drones to hit targets. And even more when you use swarms.

Then again, that's good engineering. It means that Iranians well-engineered their drones according to the existing circumstances.

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#114

Post by ivalm »

unity1001 wrote: post #113
ivalm wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Russians are buying Iranian drones that are surprisingly capable. Also funny that Russians are so behind the times that they need to buy advanced military tech from Iran. Edit: apparently Russians have advanced but uneconomical drones, Iran strikes a better balance!

That's not the case. Russian suicide drones seem to be WAY too advanced - it is said that they are so silent that you can't even hear them until they dive for the hit. From there comes the advantage of the Iranian drones - they make a lot of noise and you can hear them from miles away. But they are WAY cheaper. So you can just swarm the air defences using them. And if the enemy actually uses missiles to hit them, it…

Ok, this is an interesting and nuanced post, thank you for the explanation, I edited my post!

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#115

Post by usefulcat »

Karellen wrote: post #87
pishpash wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a vacuum. The aerodynamics aren't possibly the same.

Surely the aerodynamics are better for firing a missile backwards. If you fire it forwards, the missile has to accelerate through whatever air resistance you're both already experiencing through even more air resistance to get to the target. That's hard. If you fire backwards, the missile uses air resistance to accelerate towards (i.e. slow down) towards the target. Even when it goes through 0mph relative to the air…

If you fire it backwards, when it first launches it will be traveling backwards relative to the airflow. So you would have to make a missile that can fly forwards or backwards. Probably not impossible but it must add some difficulty.

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#116

Post by actionfromafar »

unity1001 wrote: post #113
ivalm wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Russians are buying Iranian drones that are surprisingly capable. Also funny that Russians are so behind the times that they need to buy advanced military tech from Iran. Edit: apparently Russians have advanced but uneconomical drones, Iran strikes a better balance!

That's not the case. Russian suicide drones seem to be WAY too advanced - it is said that they are so silent that you can't even hear them until they dive for the hit. From there comes the advantage of the Iranian drones - they make a lot of noise and you can hear them from miles away. But they are WAY cheaper. So you can just swarm the air defences using them. And if the enemy actually uses missiles to hit them, it…

I feel this has not shaken out properly yet. Obviously (to me) there is another yet-to-be-invented drone counter battery which is not yet invented. Probably smaller drones dive bombing onto the Iranian drones.

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#117

Post by bongobingo1 »

bentcorner wrote: post #58
bazillion wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Top Gun 2, he uses it twice. Once, during the training dogfight where Rooster has a chance to shoot him down (he says, "Too late, you had your chance" and then pulls off the maneuver, targeting Rooster instead afterwards). After the training dogfight, he is told by Cyclone, "...and I don't ever want to see that Cobra shit again. That could have gotten you both killed". The second time was towards the end when they…

Top Gun 2 is really a fantastic movie but for anybody skipping the film here's the clips: First time: https://youtu.be/zlWmeo-4ulw?t=72 Second time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nwBwJiyQ_g Tom Cruise is kind of a weirdo but his films are incredibly entertaining.

The film is ... filmed in/with real aircraft too. Obviously there are stand in effects when they're exploding missiles, but the in-cockpit shots are all practical "effects" of the actors sitting in second seat. Real canopies, real g-forces, etc. Pretty cool!

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#118

Post by rnk »

unity1001 wrote: post #103
eru wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Iranian drones' amazing performance in Ukraine shows that warfare has changed forever. Do you have more information on that?

Not in easily accessible Western media, obviously. You have to follow Indian, Chinese or other unaligned sources. Indian outlets would be the easiest. However the best and most striking is to follow the Russian/Slavic channels in Telegram. The footage there is incredible (not gore). They post what Ukrainians post online - drones in flight just before hitting their target. Drones passing over. Multiple drones flying i…

This is interesting news about the iranian drones I haven't read anywhere. Indian and Chinese media is widely available on the web, surprising this hasn't come up. Can you provide a link to some stories? My own web search found this in Politico. So I don't think it's a secret kept from western media. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/26/iranian-drones-ukra...

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#119

Post by roeles »

I see lots of talk about lack of usefulness in combat. I agree with most, but the cobra maneuver illustrates something important about the post-stall behavior of an airplane. It is incredibly difficult to keep the vortices symmetrical during such a maneuver. Most Western fighters couldn't do it because they would sway left or right. The ability to perform the cobra illustrates how the design handles at and beyond stall, which can have implications on its ability to turn sharply.

The same goes for the tailslide. It illustrates properties of the air intake and engines.

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#120

Post by manquer »

unity1001 wrote: post #113
ivalm wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Russians are buying Iranian drones that are surprisingly capable. Also funny that Russians are so behind the times that they need to buy advanced military tech from Iran. Edit: apparently Russians have advanced but uneconomical drones, Iran strikes a better balance!

That's not the case. Russian suicide drones seem to be WAY too advanced - it is said that they are so silent that you can't even hear them until they dive for the hit. From there comes the advantage of the Iranian drones - they make a lot of noise and you can hear them from miles away. But they are WAY cheaper. So you can just swarm the air defences using them. And if the enemy actually uses missiles to hit them, it…

The design is also limited by sanctions on Iran to source advanced parts.
Post reply on HN