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Cobra Maneuver

en.wikipedia.org

41–50 of 160 posts

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#41

Is there a reason why modern planes can't shoot backwards? A lot of the WW2 planes had turrets a separate gunner would control, but they all seem to have disappeared. My only guess is that dogfights don't actually happen much anymore.

Perhaps the maneuver could be used against an incoming missile?

I.e., it might be easier to out-maneuver it this way than to shoot it.

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#42

Is there a reason why modern planes can't shoot backwards? A lot of the WW2 planes had turrets a separate gunner would control, but they all seem to have disappeared. My only guess is that dogfights don't actually happen much anymore.

Yes - I followed former fighter pilot on YT - you have bad guys in range if your sensors/missiles, fire missile or two and that is mostly end of the fight.

Even if you don't hit the guy you just pull back and go for your station because without rockets you will be gone if the other guy somehow survives 2 and you don't have any.

Dogfights like in the movies don't happen.

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#43
post #41

Is there a reason why modern planes can't shoot backwards? A lot of the WW2 planes had turrets a separate gunner would control, but they all seem to have disappeared. My only guess is that dogfights don't actually happen much anymore.

Perhaps the maneuver could be used against an incoming missile? I.e., it might be easier to out-maneuver it this way than to shoot it.

Like a CIWS? They get through far far too much ammunition to be mounted in a plane. Planes have just a few seconds of ammunition for a medium weight of fire, CIWS fire for tens of seconds at a much higher rate of fire at each missile.

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#44
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Energy. If you fire a missile to your rear then it needs to first accelerate to your original speed just to be staying still, only then can it accelerate towards the target. An AIM-9X can do this, but the kill probability drops rapidly as you move off boresight.

> only then can it accelerate towards the target but in a dogfight (where this move is presumably useful) the target is not stationary, it's moving towards the missile. if all the missile does is accelerate to stay still, it will still hit the target at 700mph

In a vacuum. The aerodynamics aren't possibly the same.

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#45
In Spain, that’s when someone tries to kiss someone in the mouth and the other person reacts by moving their head back real quick in order to avoid it.

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about guns? Relative speed against the enemy is the same no matter if you shoot forward or backward. Or am I missing something?

Bullets don't move at the speed of light.[1] Shoot a bullet backwards off a bullet train, that bullet's ground speed is less than if shot from the ground while stationary. Similarly, shoot a bullet forward off a bullet train, that bullet's ground speed is more than if shot from the ground from a stationary position. Shoot bullets backwards off a jet moving Mach 3 (just sayin') those 1700mph bullets will still be movi…

But the bullet will still hit the plane following you at roughly 1700mph (you could say, the plane will crash into the bullet at that speed, but it‘s the same result), because it‘s also moving at Mach 3.

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about guns? Relative speed against the enemy is the same no matter if you shoot forward or backward. Or am I missing something?

Bullets don't move at the speed of light.[1] Shoot a bullet backwards off a bullet train, that bullet's ground speed is less than if shot from the ground while stationary. Similarly, shoot a bullet forward off a bullet train, that bullet's ground speed is more than if shot from the ground from a stationary position. Shoot bullets backwards off a jet moving Mach 3 (just sayin') those 1700mph bullets will still be movi…

That's true in the ground's frame of reference.

But in the plane's frame, where both planes are roughly stationary and the wind is moving 100s of mph backwards, bullets fired backwards move faster.

And for aerial combat I would argue the plane's frame is the important one.

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about guns? Relative speed against the enemy is the same no matter if you shoot forward or backward. Or am I missing something?

Bullets don't move at the speed of light.[1] Shoot a bullet backwards off a bullet train, that bullet's ground speed is less than if shot from the ground while stationary. Similarly, shoot a bullet forward off a bullet train, that bullet's ground speed is more than if shot from the ground from a stationary position. Shoot bullets backwards off a jet moving Mach 3 (just sayin') those 1700mph bullets will still be movi…

But the guy that is pursuing you will still be going after you in around Mach 3 so he will go through your bullets like they would be traveling his direction at 600mph.

Re: Cobra Maneuver

#50

Is there a reason why modern planes can't shoot backwards? A lot of the WW2 planes had turrets a separate gunner would control, but they all seem to have disappeared. My only guess is that dogfights don't actually happen much anymore.

Those "turret fighters" were basically total failures. At least one of the British attempts wound up being used for anti-aircraft defense, parked on the side of the runway after having their engines removed.

The Northrop P-61 had a turret, which wound up being used in the locked forward position due to it being unreliable.

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