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A Eulogy for Bitcoin

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Re: A Eulogy for Bitcoin

#11

Post by adammarples »

woeh wrote: post #10
kevinak wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No Bitcoin does not need to change its power consumption ways. It literally incentivises the build out of renewable energy. It will fix itself in time.

How does Bitcoin have literal incentives to build out renewable energy? I've heard the claim before, but I'm not following. Doesn't Bitcoin mining just incentivize generating energy in general - green or otherwise? As a counterpoint: A recent study from Cambridge [0] estimates most of Bitcoins energy consumption still to be from fossil fuels. [0] https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/insight/2022/a-deep-dive-into-bitc...

One thing that I could say is that bitcoin mining can happen anywhere while typically energy has to be transported to population hubs. I'm not sure I agree that this fact has incentivised much renewables building.

Re: A Eulogy for Bitcoin

#12

Post by ngetchell »

kevinak wrote: post #9
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #3

People have been saying that Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general will die soon for a while now. It has not happened. I say that it's too soon to say. Bitcoin will need to change its power consumption ways, that's for sure. But I'm one that believes that instead of reducing its power consumption, Bitcoin, the community, will find better ways to produce green power.

No Bitcoin does not need to change its power consumption ways. It literally incentivises the build out of renewable energy. It will fix itself in time.

I don't see the connection. Energy needs would be better iff without Bitcoin mining.

Re: A Eulogy for Bitcoin

#13

Post by throw101010 »

Ethereum has changed its monetary policy on the whims of few influential people, including Vitalik Buterin. It is currently deflationary, but now eveyone knows that this can change overnight if the right (few) people want it.

With this change it further renounced to its chances to be a replacement of Bitcoin, so it won't bury it, and this eulogy is comical at best... like the hundreds of previous ones from other tokens/networks.

Bitcoin has a track record of keeping its fundamental principle intact (fixed supply, verifiable on low-end hardware, no premine/ICO, etc.), and it makes all the difference when it come to be an actual sound form of money.

Re: A Eulogy for Bitcoin

#14

Post by fritolaid »

pyinstallwoes wrote: post #8
fritolaid wrote: post #7

The way our brain is equipped to process concepts is an over-simplification and confusing of what some refer to as the deeper reality or simply the reality that our mind obfuscates. It's worse than Plato's Cave. It's futile to opine on things that we don't yet fully comprehend in the greater scheme of things. We don't even know (yet we think we do) what we're opining about. Good luck with all such feeble attempts at…

Oh you’re suggesting that Timechain is actually the DNA of AI and serves as the simulacrum driving our meta reality like a fractal? Yeah it’s cool.

No, not the thing itself. Humans are fixated on the thing itself. I couldn't care less about the Dorkchain, but what role it plays in the greater scheme of things. Be it bad or good from your individual perspective.

Re: A Eulogy for Bitcoin

#15

Post by MrMan »

kevinak wrote: post #9
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #3

People have been saying that Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general will die soon for a while now. It has not happened. I say that it's too soon to say. Bitcoin will need to change its power consumption ways, that's for sure. But I'm one that believes that instead of reducing its power consumption, Bitcoin, the community, will find better ways to produce green power.

No Bitcoin does not need to change its power consumption ways. It literally incentivises the build out of renewable energy. It will fix itself in time.

this is such a blatantly untrue statement, made in good, faith steelmanning it, curiously

Re: A Eulogy for Bitcoin

#16

Post by kevinak »

woeh wrote: post #10
kevinak wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No Bitcoin does not need to change its power consumption ways. It literally incentivises the build out of renewable energy. It will fix itself in time.

How does Bitcoin have literal incentives to build out renewable energy? I've heard the claim before, but I'm not following. Doesn't Bitcoin mining just incentivize generating energy in general - green or otherwise? As a counterpoint: A recent study from Cambridge [0] estimates most of Bitcoins energy consumption still to be from fossil fuels. [0] https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/insight/2022/a-deep-dive-into-bitc...

It incentivises using the cheapest energy which is renewable. Bitcoin could even be greenhouse negative - just stick a mine on top of every landfill around and you have a recipe to get rid of methane gas. Or on oil fields where they accidentally run into gas pockets.

Looks to me like GHG emissions are going down this year, from that report. I would expect that to continue going forward as more miners are deployed on top of cheap electricity sources :)

Re: A Eulogy for Bitcoin

#17

Post by andirk »

kevinak wrote: post #9
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #3

People have been saying that Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general will die soon for a while now. It has not happened. I say that it's too soon to say. Bitcoin will need to change its power consumption ways, that's for sure. But I'm one that believes that instead of reducing its power consumption, Bitcoin, the community, will find better ways to produce green power.

No Bitcoin does not need to change its power consumption ways. It literally incentivises the build out of renewable energy. It will fix itself in time.

No opinion here, but I think the idea is bitcoin seeks _cheap_ energy which encourages miners to use mass sources of solar/wind energy that are plentiful but in undesirable places like Arizona. Hence, one can conclude that miners are pro-renewables and will invest in their research. \_(ツ)_/¯

Re: A Eulogy for Bitcoin

#18

Post by kevinak »

MrMan wrote: post #15
kevinak wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No Bitcoin does not need to change its power consumption ways. It literally incentivises the build out of renewable energy. It will fix itself in time.

this is such a blatantly untrue statement, made in good, faith steelmanning it, curiously

How come?

Re: A Eulogy for Bitcoin

#19

Post by kevinak »

ngetchell wrote: post #12
kevinak wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No Bitcoin does not need to change its power consumption ways. It literally incentivises the build out of renewable energy. It will fix itself in time.

I don't see the connection. Energy needs would be better iff without Bitcoin mining.

The connection is that miners seek the cheapest energy out there, which is renewables. Renewables (solar, wind) are highly variable in their output so to get stability you need to deploy A LOT of it (or couple it with for exmaple nuclear, hydro or fossil fuels). Bitcoin can act as a "buyer of last resort" for the producer, thus letting electricity producers build out larger deployments at a lower risk.

Bitcoin mining has a whole host of pretty cool properties that help stabilize the grid as well. Here's a two part article about it: https://braiins.com/blog/bitcoin-mining-the-grid-generators

Re: A Eulogy for Bitcoin

#20

Post by woeh »

kevinak wrote: post #16
woeh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Bitcoin have literal incentives to build out renewable energy? I've heard the claim before, but I'm not following. Doesn't Bitcoin mining just incentivize generating energy in general - green or otherwise? As a counterpoint: A recent study from Cambridge [0] estimates most of Bitcoins energy consumption still to be from fossil fuels. [0] https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/insight/2022/a-deep-dive-into-bitc...

It incentivises using the cheapest energy which is renewable. Bitcoin could even be greenhouse negative - just stick a mine on top of every landfill around and you have a recipe to get rid of methane gas. Or on oil fields where they accidentally run into gas pockets. Looks to me like GHG emissions are going down this year, from that report. I would expect that to continue going forward as more miners are deployed on…

Isn't every energy consumer incentivized to use the cheapest available energy source? In case of a landfill, there probably is a city nearby which would benefit from cheap electricity.

Perhaps miners have an advantage over a city in that they can move or disable mining rigs in times when renewables are scarce. But from what I understand Asics are expensive, and running them is big business. Which probably means they will continue running while it is financially feasible, even when a nearby dam runs dry or there is not enough wind or solar to go about.

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