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How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

pluralistic.net

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Re: How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

#11

Post by FridayoLeary »

eganist wrote: post #4
FridayoLeary wrote: post #3

This is just an opinionated rant masquerading as news. particularly revealing is this line >resistance to its privatisation and the importation of America's grisly omnishambolic health care "system." I think anyone who knows about the current state of the NHS is under no illusions that it's in any way fit for use. I think a lot of people wouldn't mid an American-style system if it gives them access to healthcare. (ed…

> I think anyone who knows about the current state of the NHS is under no illusions that it's in any way fit for use. I think a lot of people wouldn't mid an American-style system if it gives them access to healthcare. Anecdata: nah. At least of my friends in the UK, they're fine with the waits if it means they don't have to pay our ludicrous health insurance premiums, deductibles, and other costs. A case comes to mi…

Anecdata: i know of somebody who had a suspected stroke. waiting times to get an MRI scan was weeks long. 8 hour waits in A&E is considered normal and Ambulances often don't show up on time. Getting an appointment with any kind of specialist within a reasonable time frame is flat out impossible in lots of cases.

The NHS when it works is wonderful, but at the moment it's in deep crisis. I have no doubt they waste tremendous amounts of money. If done properly privatisation and deregulation could just save it.

(Edit: granted the American system is awful, but it's very disingenuous of this article to pretend the NHS as it stands is much better.)

Re: How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

#12

Post by muglug »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #3

This is just an opinionated rant masquerading as news. particularly revealing is this line >resistance to its privatisation and the importation of America's grisly omnishambolic health care "system." I think anyone who knows about the current state of the NHS is under no illusions that it's in any way fit for use. I think a lot of people wouldn't mid an American-style system if it gives them access to healthcare. (ed…

Remember that the UK also has a private healthcare system — everyone pays for the public option, but if you have a lot of money you can get expensive care.

The thing is that British people pretty much uniformally reject private healthcare, because they don’t think you should pay for something as basic as healthcare.

Instead the big popular drive is to make the NHS better (even though the current government is actively trying to make it worse).

Re: How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

#13

Post by _Microft »

dijit wrote: post #9
HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #5

Among the Europeans I know, the NHS is considered a laughing stock, and they find it absurd how much national pride there is for it. A move towards a European system like Germany’s would likely have significant positive outcomes. In the UK, you can barely see a GP in a week; in Germany you can see a specialist in days. There’s a spending disparity but it’s not big enough to explain the difference in outcomes IMO. Unf…

Literally just (Friday) had a discussion with my German colleague who passed a kidney stone on the day before (Thursday) in Germany. All was fine until it came to the topic of his health insurance card: see, on the Thursday he was taken to the hospital they kept his health insurance card. When he went to his actual doctor the morning after they wouldn’t even talk to him unless he had it and getting it back from the p…

> so he started the long and drawn out process of getting a temporary bit of paper mailed to his address from his insurance company stating that he had insurance.

It happened to me that I saw a doctor and had forgotten to bring my health insurance card. I was then required to show it within (I think) ten days or be charged the cost of the visit myself.

All it took to fix that later that day was to log into the website of my health insurer, download said document as pdf and mail it to the doctor's office.

It might not be as simple as you might like but it does not have to be as bad as their experience was.

Re: How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

#14

Post by notthemessiah »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #3

This is just an opinionated rant masquerading as news. particularly revealing is this line >resistance to its privatisation and the importation of America's grisly omnishambolic health care "system." I think anyone who knows about the current state of the NHS is under no illusions that it's in any way fit for use. I think a lot of people wouldn't mid an American-style system if it gives them access to healthcare. (ed…

> This is just an opinionated rant masquerading as news.

Gee, I wonder what gave it away that this is an op-ed/blog and not, in-fact, a news organization? The page title showing that these are links from Cory Doctorow? The editorialized title?

> I think a lot of people wouldn't mid an American-style system if it gives them access to healthcare.

Perhaps you're oblivious to the myriad of ways in which Americans are denied/discouraged from access to health care under a profit-driven system, whether it be denied claims, or in my case, HMOs trying to direct you to doctors who are not seeing new patients.

Re: How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

#15

Post by analog31 »

HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #5

Among the Europeans I know, the NHS is considered a laughing stock, and they find it absurd how much national pride there is for it. A move towards a European system like Germany’s would likely have significant positive outcomes. In the UK, you can barely see a GP in a week; in Germany you can see a specialist in days. There’s a spending disparity but it’s not big enough to explain the difference in outcomes IMO. Unf…

Does that mean seeing a GP for anything? Here in Wisconsin you can walk into an "urgent care" clinic if you're insured, and be seen by the doctor on staff right away. But appointments with an actual date and time are typically booked out several weeks. Likewise for any kind of specialist or an MRI.

Re: How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

#16

Post by sorokod »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #3

This is just an opinionated rant masquerading as news. particularly revealing is this line >resistance to its privatisation and the importation of America's grisly omnishambolic health care "system." I think anyone who knows about the current state of the NHS is under no illusions that it's in any way fit for use. I think a lot of people wouldn't mid an American-style system if it gives them access to healthcare. (ed…

Come to X, have a medical emergency and see how the local health system deals with it.

Substitute UK or US for X and see what people would rather have.

Re: How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

#17

Post by dijit »

_Microft wrote: post #13
dijit wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally just (Friday) had a discussion with my German colleague who passed a kidney stone on the day before (Thursday) in Germany. All was fine until it came to the topic of his health insurance card: see, on the Thursday he was taken to the hospital they kept his health insurance card. When he went to his actual doctor the morning after they wouldn’t even talk to him unless he had it and getting it back from the p…

> so he started the long and drawn out process of getting a temporary bit of paper mailed to his address from his insurance company stating that he had insurance. It happened to me that I saw a doctor and had forgotten to bring my health insurance card. I was then required to show it within (I think) ten days or be charged the cost of the visit myself. All it took to fix that later that day was to log into the websit…

Interesting, he said that basically they weren’t interested in talking to him at all until he produced the card.

Of course I’m not a primary source, so the actual interaction may have been different.

Re: How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

#18

Post by sorokod »

muglug wrote: post #12
FridayoLeary wrote: post #3

This is just an opinionated rant masquerading as news. particularly revealing is this line >resistance to its privatisation and the importation of America's grisly omnishambolic health care "system." I think anyone who knows about the current state of the NHS is under no illusions that it's in any way fit for use. I think a lot of people wouldn't mid an American-style system if it gives them access to healthcare. (ed…

Remember that the UK also has a private healthcare system — everyone pays for the public option, but if you have a lot of money you can get expensive care. The thing is that British people pretty much uniformally reject private healthcare, because they don’t think you should pay for something as basic as healthcare. Instead the big popular drive is to make the NHS better (even though the current government is activel…

Even private healthcare falls back on the public institutions for medical heavy lifting.

Where do you think serious surgeries are performed?

Re: How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

#19

Post by FridayoLeary »

sorokod wrote: post #16
FridayoLeary wrote: post #3

This is just an opinionated rant masquerading as news. particularly revealing is this line >resistance to its privatisation and the importation of America's grisly omnishambolic health care "system." I think anyone who knows about the current state of the NHS is under no illusions that it's in any way fit for use. I think a lot of people wouldn't mid an American-style system if it gives them access to healthcare. (ed…

Come to X, have a medical emergency and see how the local health system deals with it. Substitute UK or US for X and see what people would rather have.

Healthcare extends far beyond medical emergencies. Also, in the UK there is a very real possibility of dying before getting medical attention.

Re: How Palantir Will Steal the NHS

#20

Post by cagataygurturk »

dijit wrote: post #9
HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #5

Among the Europeans I know, the NHS is considered a laughing stock, and they find it absurd how much national pride there is for it. A move towards a European system like Germany’s would likely have significant positive outcomes. In the UK, you can barely see a GP in a week; in Germany you can see a specialist in days. There’s a spending disparity but it’s not big enough to explain the difference in outcomes IMO. Unf…

Literally just (Friday) had a discussion with my German colleague who passed a kidney stone on the day before (Thursday) in Germany. All was fine until it came to the topic of his health insurance card: see, on the Thursday he was taken to the hospital they kept his health insurance card. When he went to his actual doctor the morning after they wouldn’t even talk to him unless he had it and getting it back from the p…

I feel your friend little bit exaggerated the situation or simply had bad luck.

The staff of the doctor you usually go knows you and don‘t ask your statuary health insurance card upon each visit. They have it in your file.

Worst case you present a paper you download from your insurance provider‘s website.

As a last resort, you declare you are privately insured and you walk out. They send the invoice to home and you send it to your insurer or pay from your pocket. A simple GP visit does not cost more than 40-50 Euros.

People are helpful. Maybe the staff of their doctor was not that day.

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