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Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

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Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#171

Post by pas »

busterarm wrote: post #145
diedead wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn, that's where diversity initiatives become too much for me. Hiring people for the sake of diversity only perpetuates negative stereotypes about women in tech.

I don't want anyone I hire to be set up to be in a situation where they will surely fail, but that does seem to be where this is going. DEI seems to care about short term efforts/results but not long term. My team has huge demands put on it as a result of product development and most of the time we need to hire entirely self-sufficient people. That's simply not possible without a significant amount of in-field experi…

> DEI folks are getting exactly what they want in the end anyway.

serious question: what do they want exactly? give money to disadvantaged folks? give them training? check quota boxes? do they personally care?

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#172

Post by sumanthvepa »

jl6 wrote: post #140

Any research published under a regime of pre-approved conclusions should be treated as an opinion piece, not as an academic paper. If this is the way NYU operates, it is no longer a university.

Just to clarify, NYU is not asking for any pledges. It is the professional association he is a part of.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#173

Post by rhaksw »

Free Speech for Me--But Not for Thee: How the American Left and Right Relentlessly Censor Each Other (1992) [1] is a good read on how we got to a point where our ability to communicate across ideologies appears to be broken in many ways.

For example, in 1963 Yale disinvited George Wallace, who was popular in the deep south, as a speaker. As a result, observers were deprived of a chance to hear opposing speakers' arguments. To some, Yale appeared censorious. As Jonathan Rauch describes [2], that's not good for your case. Censorship is all these characters need to gain new followers. Wallace ran for president in 1968 and nearly forced a plurality which would have given him significantly more influence [3].

Early episodes of the podcast So to Speak [4] by FIRE can inform the direction that can get us talking again. Basically, open and civil discourse is the way. The podcast demonstrates, through interviews with free speech advocates, a bunch of examples showing why that is a good target to shoot for, and how to achieve it.

[1] https://archive.org/details/freespeechformeb0000hent

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0T9XSG73kY&t=4889s

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Wallace_1968_presidenti...

[4] https://www.thefire.org/category/newsdesk/so-to-speak/page/1...

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#174

Post by scaramanga »

yathaid wrote: post #112

"Now that many university presidents have agreed to implement many of the demands, I believe that the conflict between truth and social justice is likely to become unmanageable." Can someone ELI5 what is this conflict between truth and social justice Haidt refers to?

[flagged]

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#175

Post by bluecalm »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #88
Dalewyn wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's anti-asian and also anti- any race that isn't on the list of beneficiaries. The original argument could have been conveyed better by framing it more broadly, but it isn't wrong.

Aah, that makes sense, if I'm understanding it correctly, they specified Asians because they're another minority, but disadvantaged by policies that seek to help other minorities.

Asians were mentioned specifically because one common example of those "anti-racist" practices: college admissions is well known to discriminate against Asians - if you're an Asian you need to be more competent and score better on exams to have the same chance for an admission as a black person for example.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#176

Post by TMWNN »

fithisux wrote: post #84

The more people talk against racism the more racism is generated. As if they are ashamed from their racist practices and they try to exorcise it ... with just talk.

Incidents like the Jussie Smollett hoax, the Jazmine Barnes hoax, and what happened to the Covington Catholic kids show that the demand for racism often exceeds supply.

An example from the Barnes hoax https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/06/us/jazmine-barnes-arrest....>, which occurred just before the Smollett hoax:

>But to civil rights activists, including Shaun King, who received the tip that led to the arrest, the race of the suspect did not upend the meaning of the case — for Jazmine's family or for the country.

>"We live in a time where somebody could do something like this based purely on hate or race," he said on Sunday. "And that it turned out to not be the case I don't think changes the devastating conclusion that people had thought something like that was possible."

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#177

Post by jl6 »

sumanthvepa wrote: post #172
jl6 wrote: post #140

Any research published under a regime of pre-approved conclusions should be treated as an opinion piece, not as an academic paper. If this is the way NYU operates, it is no longer a university.

Just to clarify, NYU is not asking for any pledges. It is the professional association he is a part of.

My mistake, I retract any suggestion of NYU wrongdoing.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#178

Post by joenot443 »

scaramanga wrote: post #174
yathaid wrote: post #112

"Now that many university presidents have agreed to implement many of the demands, I believe that the conflict between truth and social justice is likely to become unmanageable." Can someone ELI5 what is this conflict between truth and social justice Haidt refers to?

[flagged]

Is it really a conspiracy when we're watching exactly what the theorists said would happen, happen?

An earnest, good-hearted, and well-cited author and scientist is removing himself from academia because of the ever-accelerating creep of DEI influence into entirely unrelated work. This sounds like exactly what the so-called 'conspiracy theorists' were trying to warn us about back in 2012 or so.

If anything, your comment really just solidified to me that maybe we should have taken those folks a bit more seriously, and encouraged folks like you to quiet down. :)

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#179

Post by trention »

scaramanga wrote: post #174
yathaid wrote: post #112

"Now that many university presidents have agreed to implement many of the demands, I believe that the conflict between truth and social justice is likely to become unmanageable." Can someone ELI5 what is this conflict between truth and social justice Haidt refers to?

[flagged]

Pro-tip: being a "toxic toss-pot" should not be a reason for getting fired. People should not be fired for any non-criminal behavior outside of their workplace, even if it's racist.

Employers who fire people over non-criminal supposedly "racist" behavior should be sued and made to pay big bucks.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#180

Post by tomohawk »

yathaid wrote: post #112

"Now that many university presidents have agreed to implement many of the demands, I believe that the conflict between truth and social justice is likely to become unmanageable." Can someone ELI5 what is this conflict between truth and social justice Haidt refers to?

"The only remedy to racist discrimination is antiracist discrimination. The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination." - Kendi

Kendi is a key promoter of "anti-racism", which is described in the above quote.

Many institutions are signing on to this agenda, which requires people to view everything through this ideological (social justice) lens and to participate in discriminatory activity as described above. This lens ensures that instead of seeking truth, you will just find more social injustice. A demon under every rock, if you will.

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