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Ask HN: What did Linux not do right?

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101–110 of 173 posts

Re: Ask HN: What did Linux not do right?

#101
post #22

The desktop experience is still a mess. They’ve become complacent with ‘it works out of the box’ but that’s not the bar. Apple sets the bar and there’s no prize for second place. You’re on Apple or Linux or brain damaged and using Windows, but nobodies using two as their primary driver, and so one ecosystem dominates. I’m glad it’s Apple because the GNU crowd are virtue signalers first and software developers second.…

> The desktop experience is still a mess. The closest I have seen to creating a good experience was Ubuntu Unity. I noticed it being used in universities, and in the office I used to work at. I'm disappointed that the Unity project wasn't taken forward, and it seems to me that Gnome just reimplemented it, but missed many best parts of the original.

Unity is still maintained and Canonical recently made Ubuntu Unity an official Ubuntu flavor.

https://ubuntuunity.org/

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Ubuntu-Unity-22.10-Official

Re: Ask HN: What did Linux not do right?

#102
post #22

The desktop experience is still a mess. They’ve become complacent with ‘it works out of the box’ but that’s not the bar. Apple sets the bar and there’s no prize for second place. You’re on Apple or Linux or brain damaged and using Windows, but nobodies using two as their primary driver, and so one ecosystem dominates. I’m glad it’s Apple because the GNU crowd are virtue signalers first and software developers second.…

I felt the same way and was a macOS user on the desktop for close to a decade. Having used Plasma Desktop via a rolling release distribution as a daily driver dispelled that feeling, though.

It looks good, it's fast and feels professional. The jankiness I used to associate with desktop Linux just isn't there. It's actually stable and reliable, whereas on macOS, I'd run into issues with Bluetooth, or with WindowServer or some other opaque macOS service hogging 100% of CPU time for no apparent reason. Linux tends to have better hardware support, as well, especially for older hardware that might have older drivers that don't support modern macOS.

I'm of the opinion that if someone's needs, even a layman's needs, can be satisfied with ChromeOS, then Plasma Desktop with a browser would satisfy them, too.

Re: Ask HN: What did Linux not do right?

#103
post #37
post #22

The desktop experience is still a mess. They’ve become complacent with ‘it works out of the box’ but that’s not the bar. Apple sets the bar and there’s no prize for second place. You’re on Apple or Linux or brain damaged and using Windows, but nobodies using two as their primary driver, and so one ecosystem dominates. I’m glad it’s Apple because the GNU crowd are virtue signalers first and software developers second.…

Could you explain more about about the "messy desktop experience"? Many years ago, around 2006-2008, my PC exclusively ran Slackware after saying goodbye to XP. It wasn't really beefy, so I installed FVWM. I could do all the university assignments on it. Internet browsing, multimedia, USB plug n play, printing etc etc worked fine. Guess my use cases were kinda minimalistic. These days I mostly work on Mac, but still…

> These days I mostly work on Mac, but still have a headless Linux PC running for personal tinkering. Probably I need to have another taste of Linux desktop experience :D

Try out modern Plasma/KDE, it's actually really nice. I say this as someone who has disliked KDE for a very long time before using Plasma.

Re: Ask HN: What did Linux not do right?

#104
1. Fix process management (lots of issues around spawning, FD inheritance, waiting for state change, hierarchy management, etc.)

2. Fix Linux's misinterpretation and broken implementation of fsync

3. Remote thread management (like CreateRemoteThread)

4. Get rid of the fundamentally-broken notion of SUID bits and grant privileges via control flow (instead of via data)

5. More handles/FDs, less IDs/paths/etc.

6. If insisting on POSIX, provide a decent implementation of POSIX async I/O

7. Better I/O model in general (including completion-based I/O) [yes, io_uring is going in this direction]

8. Revamp/remove signals

9. Set the official user/kernel boundary at the library level (like ntdll on Windows, glibc on Linux) rather than at the syscall level

10. Lots of other stuff I can't think of right now

Re: Ask HN: What did Linux not do right?

#105
post #97

The Linux kernel is as good as it gets, in my opinion. Desktop Linux is another story though. On one end, you have GNOME devs who try to imitate macOS without the UX design knowledge and taste, and KDE that is buggy and crashes a lot. If these teams merged they could create something that will rival Windows. I guess fragmentation and lack of good desktops it is.

I don't like that GNOME seems to force itself into situations as something more than a desktop environment. I mean all the extra libraries that somehow end up being dependencies in my non-GNOME system. And gconf, i.e. the Linux Registry, or whatever it has been rebranded to.

Similarly, GNU Info pages when well-written man pages suffice. Split by topic - there's already a mechanism for this.

I don't want to compile a basic utility like `curl` or something and then discover that somebody decided it has hard dependencies on graphical libraries and applications (even if once- or twice-removed).

KDE is superb these days, after the slump that was KDE 4. However even KDE developers seem think that a tic-tac-toe game needs to have its board abstracted as libtiktaktoe in case anybody else ever needs to use it.

I had thought that Wayland might be an improvement. It seems to be a regression. I recently learned that the trade-off for avoiding tearing in Wayland is increased latency compared to X11/Xorg. I don't want to care about my graphical display manager. X is not perfect, but it is tried-and-true, and it does not leave me struggling to share my screen in Zoom, or have legible fonts in my creative applications.

Systemd: Binary log files. I should be able to configure my system with `sed` and `awk` scripts that easily modify text configuration files.

On this note, applications should use plain text files for their data more often. For example, web browsers could use a hierarchy of text files, each representing a web page in history, or a bookmarked site. Sqlite is good, but a database is simply unnecessary in many cases, because filesystems are very optimized and perfectly useable for many cases. This encourages hacking and interoperation. I could comfortably browse through my bookmarks in a mature native file system explorer of my preference, instead of struggling with a tricky scrolling menu within a browser. If I want to change browsers or computers, there is no more export/import of links and then they get messed up anyway.

DBus: I'm not sure why the same functions could not be implemented robustly as a standard structure of named pipes.

SELinux: A tremendous gift so often squandered by being disabled with the global flag.

Pulseaudio, Pipewire, Wireplumber.

Re: Ask HN: What did Linux not do right?

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once it becomes "about money" that controls the enterprise, even when it was originally about software. Sure there's some projects that avoided that but its a tar pit and I can't fault anyone for avoiding it.

Is it, though? I find a lot of security in the knowledge that Ubuntu has a self-sustaining financial model. It’s still close enough to the original love of software that Linus strongly approves. I really enjoyed your parent comment’s take on grant-writing. I do, however, expect that this is already taking place in the appropriate areas of Linux development more than is commonly realized.

https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/11/01/ubuntu-search-am...

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/base-files/+bug/17...

considering Ubuntu pulls shit like this I'd say their lust for money has already repeatedly been a problem for users.

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