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Neovim 0.8 Released

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Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#191

Post by kgarten »

modernerd wrote: post #48

If you use Neovim, can you share why you chose it over VS Code, or one of the new terminal-based editors like https://helix-editor.com/ , or new native GUI editors like https://zed.dev/ ? It's impressive to see what the Neovim community has built — preconfigured setups like https://nvchad.com/ are especially wild. But it still feels like a huge amount of work, hoop jumping, and _fragility_ just to reach parity with V…

Neovim user here. I also use VS Code and especially the Jetbrain products for IDEs. Yet, Neovim is for me just an editor.

- I like I can use the same editor on any platform. I'm a wearable computing nerd having several HMDs and small devices (devterm, raspberry pie, etc.).

- If it's my own platform, it's easy to compile it. It runs in a console and most of my plugins work on embedded, desktop and server systems. (could even compile it and use it on my hacked google glass .. with a twiddler one handed keyboard :D ).

- I like the use of keyboard-only and mode switching. It's more an hobby than anything else. I also use qtbrowser and Nyxt.

Also growing up with a very different Microsoft ("Linux is evil communism"), I still feel uncomfortable using VSCode.

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#192

Post by jez »

modernerd wrote: post #48

If you use Neovim, can you share why you chose it over VS Code, or one of the new terminal-based editors like https://helix-editor.com/ , or new native GUI editors like https://zed.dev/ ? It's impressive to see what the Neovim community has built — preconfigured setups like https://nvchad.com/ are especially wild. But it still feels like a huge amount of work, hoop jumping, and _fragility_ just to reach parity with V…

As a Vim user I particularly liked this tweet thread on the topic recently:

https://mobile.twitter.com/hillelogram/status/15676069643974...

The central point of the thread was that VS Code is designed to be extended by dedicated editor extension developers while Vim is designed to be extended by basically all users of Vim. There are tradeoffs to both approaches.

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#193

Post by kingofpandora »

johnfn wrote: post #150
sophacles wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah telemetry - you mean software that sends back information about what I'm doing to some 3rd party? Unlike spyware which is software that sends back information about what I'm doing to some third party. Totally different, got it.

I said this to someone else, but spyware is defined (Google) as "a form of malware that hides on your device, monitors your activity, and steals sensitive information like bank details and passwords." Please furnish any example of Microsoft stealing sensitive information like bank details and passwords via VSCode.

Why does Google get to decide that software has to "hide on your device" and that it has to steal banking information or passwords to meet the definition of spyware?

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#194

Post by addcninblue »

ajoseps wrote: post #42

I've tried using neovim for C++ dev but keep ending back in either vscode with intellisense or YCM on Vim. I don't know if I'm just misconfiguring things but I haven't been able to get autocomplete working correctly. Any tips?

You'll need to configure clangd or ccls correctly with neovim's lsp, which in turn requires your build chain to be clean. It's definitely a huge time sink. Feel free to email me if you have specific issues!

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#195

Post by jrm4 »

jsf01 wrote: post #169
johnfn wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you can say whatever you want - you only diminish your own argument by doing so. It's like the boy who cried wolf - if you keep shouting "spyware" with no true evidence of spyware, then by the time that "spyware" actually is happening, no one is going to care. > what it either does now Spyware is defined (Google) as "a form of malware that hides on your device, monitors your activity, and steals sensitive inf…

Even the FTC struggles to define spyware. But I think you’re right that a disagreement on the definition is at the heart of all of this. I wouldn’t be so overconfident in asserting that spyware is defined in your particular way here, though. There isn’t exactly a consensus! VSCode is certainly not to be lumped in with password stealing keyloggers, but because they continue collecting telemetry data even after you exp…

I'm very comfortable calling ALL OF IT spyware until something like the GDPR cookie thing exists for it. (or they voluntarily make such a statement BEFORE you use it)

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#196

Post by CrendKing »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #152
johnfn wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you can say whatever you want - you only diminish your own argument by doing so. It's like the boy who cried wolf - if you keep shouting "spyware" with no true evidence of spyware, then by the time that "spyware" actually is happening, no one is going to care. > what it either does now Spyware is defined (Google) as "a form of malware that hides on your device, monitors your activity, and steals sensitive inf…

> Spyware is defined (Google) as "a form of malware that hides on your device, monitors your activity, and steals sensitive information like bank details and passwords." Please furnish any example of Microsoft stealing sensitive information like bank details and passwords via VSCode. Well, yes, of course Google would say that. If you ask DuckDuckGo to define spyware, it offers these: > Software that secretly gathers…

That's wrong. They key element of "spyware" is that it monitors and reports outside of it's own realm, and cause damage with the data. Like a keylogger logs keys even it's not the active program. What VSCode does is only monitoring user action within VSCode for technicality. Until you can provide evidence otherwise, calling it "spyware" is act of defamation.

Also, if software with telemetry is spyware, there is no mainstream browser clean. Feel free to use forks like Tor Browser or VSCodium if you like, but expanding the scope of spyware unreasonably only gonna cause confusion to average people.

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#197

Post by Winsaucerer »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #142
d3nj4l wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If VSCode "sucks", then isn't it weird that the vast majority of people seem to love and even prefer using software that "sucks", including GP?

I'm not sure how you'd know that; since vim, emacs, and other more traditional options don't include telemetry we don't know how many people use what editors. In any event, Windows remains the most-used (desktop) OS, so I've long since acclimated to people living with the suckage.

There's some data here that can help give a clue: https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#most-popular-technolog.... It does look like vscode is the most used by a very large margin.

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#198

Post by CrendKing »

sophacles wrote: post #170
johnfn wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said this to someone else, but spyware is defined (Google) as "a form of malware that hides on your device, monitors your activity, and steals sensitive information like bank details and passwords." Please furnish any example of Microsoft stealing sensitive information like bank details and passwords via VSCode.

I don't want MS to monitor me. Anything that enables them to track me better is sensitive because I don't want to be monitored.

No one stops you from using VSCodium. But associating a software with spyware (a black/white action) should not but tied to how much telemetry (a spectrum) they collect. It's about what type of data they collect and what they do with the data. If they deliberately use that data to cause any damage (black/white), you can call it spyware. But if they only use that to improve their software, no, you shouldn't.

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#199

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

Winsaucerer wrote: post #197
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how you'd know that; since vim, emacs, and other more traditional options don't include telemetry we don't know how many people use what editors. In any event, Windows remains the most-used (desktop) OS, so I've long since acclimated to people living with the suckage.

There's some data here that can help give a clue: https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#most-popular-technolog... . It does look like vscode is the most used by a very large margin.

Scrolling up, the same sample put NPM use at 65.17%, so I feel pretty comfortable calling it sample bias.

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#200

Post by CrendKing »

massysett wrote: post #90
modernerd wrote: post #48

If you use Neovim, can you share why you chose it over VS Code, or one of the new terminal-based editors like https://helix-editor.com/ , or new native GUI editors like https://zed.dev/ ? It's impressive to see what the Neovim community has built — preconfigured setups like https://nvchad.com/ are especially wild. But it still feels like a huge amount of work, hoop jumping, and _fragility_ just to reach parity with V…

I was not familiar with Helix or Zed, so I took a look at the links. Both webpages prominently state that the editors are written in Rust. This reduces my interest in both projects. As a user, I do not care what language my editor is implemented in. Maybe I want a fast editor, or maybe I want a feature-rich editor. The closest I would come to caring about this is if I want an extensible editor - can I extend these ed…

Think this in a jokingly way: since only smart and dedicated people can master Rust, software written by these people must be good most of the time. Just like how literate people in ancient societies are mostly elite class. You don't expect a peasant to write a history book.

Of course, same as how our societies develop, when Rust inevitably become more popular, this perception will no longer hold. One day, Rust will join amongst C and C++ and become tool for everyone. Until then, "Written in Rust" is just a cheap but effective differentiation ad.

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