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OpenStreepMap 2012 vs. 2022

2012.osmz.ru

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Re: OpenStreepMap 2012 vs. 2022

#151

Post by stevage »

crazygringo wrote: post #109
alt227 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the main thing I hate about google maps. I refuse to do free work for google in return for 'fun'.

This is definitely one of the trickiest ethical questions for me -- and it applies not only to Maps updates, but also writing Amazon reviews, and so forth. On the one hand it's free work benefiting the corporation... but on the other hand it's genuinely helping sometimes thousands of other people. I benefit massively from reading Amazon reviews, and it feels good to give back. But it is also a contribution that furth…

Agreed. Overall I see it as a net negative to society if Amazon succeeds so I don't help.

Contributing to Stackoverflow is my one exception.

Re: OpenStreepMap 2012 vs. 2022

#152

Post by Doctor_Fegg »

hashtag-til wrote: post #4

I wonder how to go about to collaborate to the OSM ecosystem with code. Does anyone know what are the cool projects within OSM in C/C++? (i.e. not web stuff)

Two C++ projects I’m involved in that you might enjoy:

https://github.com/systemed/tilemaker

https://github.com/Project-OSRM/osrm-backend

Re: OpenStreepMap 2012 vs. 2022

#153

Post by westnordost »

hashtag-til wrote: post #4

I wonder how to go about to collaborate to the OSM ecosystem with code. Does anyone know what are the cool projects within OSM in C/C++? (i.e. not web stuff)

The most accessible general-purpose map app for end users (Android and iOS) is written in C/C++. This is pretty high on the cool and useful scale: https://organicmaps.app/

Both map renderers Tangram-ES and Maplibre-GL - https://github.com/tangrams/tangram-es and - https://github.com/maplibre/maplibre-gl-native are also written in C/C++.

Finally, most routing software, such as OSRM or Valhalla are written in C/C++.

Re: OpenStreepMap 2012 vs. 2022

#154

Post by int_19h »

mvexel wrote: post #40
benbristow wrote: post #37

OSM needs some form of gamification adding to it. Google Maps app is great, lets you gain points by adding information & photos & reviews etc. They even send you a free bespoke pair of socks or a badge if you're active enough. So fun to add photos and then see how many views they get (I posted one of a chippy in Scotland (for Americans that's Fish & Chip 'Thick French Fries' shop) which got over 1.4 million views - m…

I maintain a website called MapRoulette which is not pure gamification but breaks down map contributions into small tasks. It has some elements of gamification (badges, leaderboard). For more task-based editing with gamification elements check out StreetComplete, an Android app.

The concept is great, but the map on the site is very buggy on the desktop (Edge 105). Trying to zoom in with mouse wheel, it often randomly zooms out and in again. Trying to pan when dragging while zoomed in and near task markers, it will often pan back after releasing the mouse, and in one case, I've seen it pan back and forth between two points on the map in what looks like an infinite loop. It seems that it's trying to do some kind of snapping to the markers, and ends up fighting the user and/or itself.

Also, the markers disappear entirely past a certain zoom level. When that happens, zooming out one notch does not cause them to reappear, either - I had to do like 4 levels before they'd show up. The worst part is that it also happens when you click on a marker and the map auto-zooms on it.

EDIT: just realized that for that last problem, what happens is that a single combined marker (the one that shows a number) is broken up into individual markers. The problem there is that those individual markers often end up outside of the viewport, and so it looks like the combined markers just disappeared.

Re: OpenStreepMap 2012 vs. 2022

#155

Post by osmsucks »

Grimburger wrote: post #63
pwg wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OSM needs some form of gamification adding to it. Take a look at StreetComplete [1]. It is gamification of updates to OSM. [1] https://f-droid.org/en/packages/de.westnordost.streetcomplet...

The last time I submitted a few months worth of my travels at once after doing a hundred or so of these challenges/questions and got a bunch of notifications lambasting me for not updating the moment I did instead of later. Honestly didn't realise you had to manually submit, thought it just happened automatically. Was a really rude intro to the community and reminded me a lot of SO or Wikipedia with its gatekeeping.…

Funny, I've had a similar experience, and stopped contributing because of it. My case was even more egregious as autosubmit _was_ enabled on StreetComplete, but unbeknownst to me at the time such submissions are batched, so if you edit local places that you're visiting (vacation) and places far away that you're intimately familiar with (home), it can still end up in one big changeset that spans an enormous geographical area... After that I had a couple of folks breathing down my neck and nitpicking every change -- and one of them tried to support their snark with http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/crybaby.html, which is possibly the stupidest writeup I've ever seen -- no, thank you, I can take my contributions elsewhere.

OpenStreetMap has strict demands on how contributors should structure their changes, but has no way to enforce them. The best it has is having someone review your changesets _after_ they've been already submitted, when it's too late as the "damage" is done. Start implementing a technical solution to problem, instead of disciplining the ones who are volunteering their time trying to curate your dataset for you.

(Also, if StreetComplete is a repeat offender, start a conversation with its devs instead of reprimanding users.)

Re: OpenStreepMap 2012 vs. 2022

#156

Post by ygra »

osmsucks wrote: post #155
Grimburger wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time I submitted a few months worth of my travels at once after doing a hundred or so of these challenges/questions and got a bunch of notifications lambasting me for not updating the moment I did instead of later. Honestly didn't realise you had to manually submit, thought it just happened automatically. Was a really rude intro to the community and reminded me a lot of SO or Wikipedia with its gatekeeping.…

Funny, I've had a similar experience, and stopped contributing because of it. My case was even more egregious as autosubmit _was_ enabled on StreetComplete, but unbeknownst to me at the time such submissions are batched, so if you edit local places that you're visiting (vacation) and places far away that you're intimately familiar with (home), it can still end up in one big changeset that spans an enormous geographic…

The devs are unwilling to automatically split changesets spatially. The main reason is that the app is intended to be used on foot, maybe bike, mapping only a small area and doing all that on the ground where you actually are. So mapping from images or memory runs afoul of that intention anyway.

Granted, that still doesn't solve the case that you may have no connectivity and are basically forced to upload a big batch later. It annoys me a bit as well.

On the other hand, despite how angry the changeset comments may read, this isn't a big deal. Globe-spanning changesets happen all the time and yes, they do annoy local users trying to keep a watch on what happens, but the history on the OSM site isn't really well-suited for that either. Also, with enough other changes, those large changesets also fall out of the history range fairly quickly, except in places where no one maps anyway.

Re: OpenStreepMap 2012 vs. 2022

#157

Post by ygra »

jxramos wrote: post #139
aqfamnzc wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen some gatekeeping in the OSM community as well. In this specific case, this is also (in my opinion) due to bad tooling. Basically the easiest way to keep an eye on an area is to use a tool that shows changesets whose bounding box includes a certain area. So you could make a single tiny edit in both NY and LA, the bbox would ping a huge swath of the US. This happens all the time, actually. It's annoying, but…

yah the change set visualization could indeed use a lot of love. I think it would be worth it, something like beyond compare's image diff could be a good start in the right direction https://beyondcompare.gitbook.io/project/other/how-to-compar...

OSMcha and a few other tools are probably much better suited for that purpose.

Re: OpenStreepMap 2012 vs. 2022

#159

Post by cjensen »

OpenStreetMap is very very good. In many ways, I prefer it to Apple and Google.

But the 2022 version suffers from a number of issues that Google and Apple are both suffering from recently: a lack of focus on who this map is for. Is this map ornamental? Or is it for driving? Walking? Finding tourist locations? What is it for?

One of the obvious changes in OSM between 2012 and 2022 is the addition of building footprints at the cost of removing a lot of street names. At this scale, do footprints really help? Am I planning a walk and need to know the street name where I will turn? When you are close to a destination, yes the footprints help one identify the correct building. But not here.

Here's a Google Maps example: if you put Canada's Yukon Territory into frame, does it show you the major roads? No. Does it show you any roads? No. Even if you select "traffic" it doesn't get the hint that you care about driving. It just wants to show you a map of geography.

And now an Apple Maps example: put California into frame. Freeways and two-lane roads are shown as thin lines that are nearly invisible. Good luck planning a route with this map! Want to go from Point A to B? It can do it! But want to consider side trips or general routing yourself? Nope.

There's still no adequate substitute for a AAA map for driving. I suspect hikers, bikers, and walkers are also poorly served by these non-specialized maps too.

Re: OpenStreepMap 2012 vs. 2022

#160

Post by zaik »

cjensen wrote: post #159

OpenStreetMap is very very good. In many ways, I prefer it to Apple and Google. But the 2022 version suffers from a number of issues that Google and Apple are both suffering from recently: a lack of focus on who this map is for . Is this map ornamental? Or is it for driving? Walking? Finding tourist locations? What is it for? One of the obvious changes in OSM between 2012 and 2022 is the addition of building footprin…

Can you point to any street names which have been removed?

It's important to remember that OpenStreetMap is primarily a database and the rendered tiles you see on this page are secondary. Data consumers can decide individually whether they want to display a map for cyclists, pedestrians etc. For example, on the official homepage you will also find tiles rendered for cyclists. The important thing is that the data is there and can be used freely by anyone.

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