Bill Gates: You’ll never solve climate change by asking people to consume less • Hacker News Board

Re: Bill Gates: You’ll never solve climate change by asking people to consume less

#91

Post by abdullahkhalids » Fri, Sep 30, 2022, 10:18 PM UTC

yucky wrote: post #90

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not an economist, and I haven't read more on this than Chomsky's books. > Also, when a hiring spree is needed, are current shareholder shares diluted? Yes. But I imagine, that it would useful to have a vesting period for new employees, of, say a, year before they get their share of the company. And particularly companies will have to think about whether hiring a new person will increase profits more than their s…

Do all employees have the same ownership (i.e. 1 share each or 100 shares each or whatever) regardless of position? Or do those with more specialized knowledge or skills have a larger share of ownership? If it's not equal ownership, how does it get decided how ownership is doled out? Is it democratic? If so, how do you account for those with the most specialized skillsets likely having a minority voice in the voting?…

Those are great questions, and I don't think all answers exist or if there is any base level of agreement between major anarcho-syndicalists. At least I don't know them.

Note that there are distinctions between the base salary someone is paid, the share of the profits they get (on top of the salary), and their voting rights. So people with specialized skillsets would likely get extra compensated in salary, maybe in some profits. Otherwise, they can switch to some other firm that compensates them better. Note that the only thing that is being banned is for capital to wholly own the profits emerging from the labor of others. Most other features of the market economy will continue to exist.

I don't expect any society that implements an anarcho-syndicalism to be free of "human" problems. Firms will continue to have drama, and politics, and likely people will band together to screw over other bands of people in the same or other firms. These are not visions of a utopia. The attempt is only to create an economic system that has significantly less fundamental problems than existing capitalism.

Sorry, I don't have better answers.

Re: Bill Gates: You’ll never solve climate change by asking people to consume less

#92

Post by h0l0cube » Sat, Oct 01, 2022, 3:17 AM UTC

yucky wrote: post #87

h0l0cube wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telepresence (at least by today's standard) is not the same as being there, and being literally present with decision makers. Overhearing conversations, hallway encounters, inspecting physical infrastructure, having individual agency to move in a space (see things for yourself), being able to 'read the room', and communicating, by your extra commitment, that you are serious not just the decision makers but even the w…

That also explains why they always seem to own 3+ homes averaging 15,000 sq. feet each?

I'll concede that the square footage seems an extravagance, and it ought not to be a thing, but once again, this is probably table stakes to rub shoulders with people who have power to change things. You don't invite investors to dinner at your down-town hovel

Re: Bill Gates: You’ll never solve climate change by asking people to consume less

#93

Post by h0l0cube » Sat, Oct 01, 2022, 3:19 AM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #84

h0l0cube wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telepresence (at least by today's standard) is not the same as being there, and being literally present with decision makers. Overhearing conversations, hallway encounters, inspecting physical infrastructure, having individual agency to move in a space (see things for yourself), being able to 'read the room', and communicating, by your extra commitment, that you are serious not just the decision makers but even the w…

So maybe we should permanently lock them in single island and throw some gruel and water at them so they don't starve? They could have all the time with each other they need with minimal emissions.

Good luck with executing on your plan. May it reap all the benefits we need to shift us away from climate catastrophe.

Re: Bill Gates: You’ll never solve climate change by asking people to consume less

#94

Post by yucky » Sat, Oct 01, 2022, 6:37 PM UTC

h0l0cube wrote: post #92

yucky wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That also explains why they always seem to own 3+ homes averaging 15,000 sq. feet each?

I'll concede that the square footage seems an extravagance, and it ought not to be a thing, but once again, this is probably table stakes to rub shoulders with people who have power to change things. You don't invite investors to dinner at your down-town hovel

Alright, then I also aspire to own the large homes and fly private jets all over the world necessary to affect change.

Re: Bill Gates: You’ll never solve climate change by asking people to consume less

#95

Post by ProjectArcturis » Sat, Oct 01, 2022, 7:54 PM UTC

didgeoridoo wrote: post #21

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #5

Quoted post unavailable.

Downvotes from Morgan Industries haters… I was always a Zakharov man myself.

I guess quotes from a 25-year-old video game aren't very popular around here.

Re: Bill Gates: You’ll never solve climate change by asking people to consume less

#96

Post by h0l0cube » Sat, Oct 01, 2022, 10:28 PM UTC

yucky wrote: post #94

h0l0cube wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll concede that the square footage seems an extravagance, and it ought not to be a thing, but once again, this is probably table stakes to rub shoulders with people who have power to change things. You don't invite investors to dinner at your down-town hovel

Alright, then I also aspire to own the large homes and fly private jets all over the world necessary to affect change.

If you believe you could realistically affect change in this arena, and this is the most effective use of your resources to do so, you ought to.

Re: Bill Gates: You’ll never solve climate change by asking people to consume less

#97

Post by anemoiac » Mon, Oct 03, 2022, 9:38 AM UTC

rufus_foreman wrote: post #47

anemoiac wrote: post #30

Decreasing consumption doesn't necessarily imply a decrease in quality of life. In the West, at least, we generally work too much, have too little social engagement, and spend lots of money and resources on things that don't really improve our lives. Many things that could actually make us happier don't require much consumption, but they're essentially luxury goods because of the modern lifestyle's high demands. I'm…

>> we generally work too much I decide if I work too much. You don't get to decide if I work too much. >> have too little social engagement I get to decide my level of social engagement. You don't get to decide my level of social engagement. >> spend lots of money and resources on things that don't really improve our lives I get to decide how to spend my money. You don't get to decide how to spend my money.

A little aggressive, no? No one's "deciding" anything for anyone in my comment.

You don't get to decide how much work/social engagement/widget purchasing makes you content any more than you can "decide" how many drinks it takes for you to get drunk.

All I'm saying is that many people could both reduce their consumption and improve their quality of lives by optimizing for factors unrelated to material consumption.