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Neovim 0.8 Released

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Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#91

Post by d3nj4l »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #65
modernerd wrote: post #48

If you use Neovim, can you share why you chose it over VS Code, or one of the new terminal-based editors like https://helix-editor.com/ , or new native GUI editors like https://zed.dev/ ? It's impressive to see what the Neovim community has built — preconfigured setups like https://nvchad.com/ are especially wild. But it still feels like a huge amount of work, hoop jumping, and _fragility_ just to reach parity with V…

> If you use Neovim, can you share why you chose it over VS Code, or one of the new terminal-based editors like https://helix-editor.com/ , or new native GUI editors like https://zed.dev/ ? VS Code is a proprietary, spyware-riddled, resource-wasting worked example of why "modern" software sucks. Also for my personal use, everything that's not vim suffers from being not vim; it would cost me effort to switch for no cl…

If VSCode "sucks", then isn't it weird that the vast majority of people seem to love and even prefer using software that "sucks", including GP?

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#92

Post by Faaak »

modernerd wrote: post #48

If you use Neovim, can you share why you chose it over VS Code, or one of the new terminal-based editors like https://helix-editor.com/ , or new native GUI editors like https://zed.dev/ ? It's impressive to see what the Neovim community has built — preconfigured setups like https://nvchad.com/ are especially wild. But it still feels like a huge amount of work, hoop jumping, and _fragility_ just to reach parity with V…

I use VSCode, but I installed the vim plugin which makes it handle like vim for user inputs. Best of both worlds IMHO.

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#93

Post by justinpombrio »

cercatrova wrote: post #77
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you use Neovim, can you share why you chose it over VS Code, or one of the new terminal-based editors like https://helix-editor.com/ , or new native GUI editors like https://zed.dev/ ? VS Code is a proprietary, spyware-riddled, resource-wasting worked example of why "modern" software sucks. Also for my personal use, everything that's not vim suffers from being not vim; it would cost me effort to switch for no cl…

I use VSCode since switching away from Neo/Vim because things just work. I don't have to install a bunch of plugins like I used to where I don't know what works and what doesn't work with each other. For example, for Rust, I go to VSCode extensions page, click install on rust-analyzer, and that's it. I don't have to set up an LSP, syntax highlighting, etc which are each their own plugin on Vim.

That's funny, I just switched from VSC to NeoVim because things just work. The C++ LSP bindings for Vim were easier to set up, faster, and more reliable than my setup in VSC. Though I imagine these things vary greatly, since C++ and C++ tooling is enormously complex and varies from codebase to codebase.

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#94

Post by reidrac »

modernerd wrote: post #48

If you use Neovim, can you share why you chose it over VS Code, or one of the new terminal-based editors like https://helix-editor.com/ , or new native GUI editors like https://zed.dev/ ? It's impressive to see what the Neovim community has built — preconfigured setups like https://nvchad.com/ are especially wild. But it still feels like a huge amount of work, hoop jumping, and _fragility_ just to reach parity with V…

I have been using vim since the late 90s, although the experience back then was much different. I don't think I really used plugins until around 2010 or so, and I was more into gvim until I moved to tmux + vim combo around 2016. So my nvim setup is not too fancy (sometimes I try plugins, if in two weeks I don't use them -or I don't even remember how they work-, I uninstall them).

Moved to neovim because it felt faster than vim 7.x and it was fresh and exciting (couldn't believe the progress the project was making in a short period of time, compared with vim). Then I stayed because of the native LSP support and nvim-metals (among others).

Things work, to the point that I'm not really using the editor but editing (if that makes sense). It is completely invisible to me. It is my editor.

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#95

Post by dominotw »

massysett wrote: post #90
modernerd wrote: post #48

If you use Neovim, can you share why you chose it over VS Code, or one of the new terminal-based editors like https://helix-editor.com/ , or new native GUI editors like https://zed.dev/ ? It's impressive to see what the Neovim community has built — preconfigured setups like https://nvchad.com/ are especially wild. But it still feels like a huge amount of work, hoop jumping, and _fragility_ just to reach parity with V…

I was not familiar with Helix or Zed, so I took a look at the links. Both webpages prominently state that the editors are written in Rust. This reduces my interest in both projects. As a user, I do not care what language my editor is implemented in. Maybe I want a fast editor, or maybe I want a feature-rich editor. The closest I would come to caring about this is if I want an extensible editor - can I extend these ed…

> As a user, I do not care what language my editor is implemented in.

Perhaps its a proxy for speed. You don't want your editor written in python.

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#96

Post by lc9er »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #89
Blackthorn wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason I still use emacs over helix or zed: elisp. Not because I particularly like the language. But because I like that I can write something in a language that executes and accesses pretty much anything the editor can do. Does helix or zed have the ability to do that? I didn't see it on their landing pages. What are the extensibility stories for these editors?

Don't know about hex/zed but Lua in neovim is just about as pleasant to use as Elisp is with Emacs. It's not quite the same thing since neovim's still largely written in C, where Emacs is largely written in Elisp. But most of the editor's features (including text manipulation) are exposed to Lua. Lua is a nice language too, just lacking the stuff that makes the Lisp nerd in me happy.

And you can use Fennel to hack Neovim, if you want to stick with a lispy language.

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#97

Post by gregwebs »

zetaposter wrote: post #60

A text editor without a well rounded GUI story isn't worth it for me. There are all these desperate projects each with their own focus, ranging from "simple graphics acceleration" to "tons of bells and whistles, animations and ad-hoc UI extensions". UI should be thought out at PRs and issues, but the same people who develop the main core. But they don't have to, because they're making a terminal application, which ha…

One of the main features of NeoVim over VIM is that NeoVIM can be embedded into other programs and new GUIs can be built that use libvim. There are now programs you can download that do that, for example [1]. Certainly, this is still an experimental line of software and I don't use the NeoVIM GUIs and don't claim that this has been proven a success yet, but there are some encouraging signs.

https://github.com/topics/neovim-guis

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#98

Post by SuperCuber »

xwdv wrote: post #61
zetaposter wrote: post #60

A text editor without a well rounded GUI story isn't worth it for me. There are all these desperate projects each with their own focus, ranging from "simple graphics acceleration" to "tons of bells and whistles, animations and ad-hoc UI extensions". UI should be thought out at PRs and issues, but the same people who develop the main core. But they don't have to, because they're making a terminal application, which ha…

The terminal is superior. You are just not skilled enough or advanced enough in thought to imagine what an interface can truly be.

Your terminal application is an emulator of a decades old technology originally used in physical consoles, with layers upon layers of enhancements that add support for colors, cursor control, etc. At it's core, it's just a grid of characters. The GUI as a platform is quite literally a superset of the terminal, for example because the terminal emulator app is a GUI itself. Hacking the grid of characters to render lines as if it was a GUI is hardly "superior".

I say all that as an avid neovim user myself by the way. On mac/linux I use it through the terminal, on Windows I use it through the QT application.

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#99

Post by thetic »

BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #23

I really wish neovim could ship usable default colorscheme and round out its lsp support with autocompletion. Treesitter isn’t for me; it’s slower to open files and I have no idea how people make sense of so many different color groups. Still sticking with vanilla vim and CoC for the time being, they’re rock solid.

This is planned for the next release: https://github.com/neovim/neovim/issues/14790

Re: Neovim 0.8 Released

#100

Post by modernerd »

massysett wrote: post #90
modernerd wrote: post #48

If you use Neovim, can you share why you chose it over VS Code, or one of the new terminal-based editors like https://helix-editor.com/ , or new native GUI editors like https://zed.dev/ ? It's impressive to see what the Neovim community has built — preconfigured setups like https://nvchad.com/ are especially wild. But it still feels like a huge amount of work, hoop jumping, and _fragility_ just to reach parity with V…

I was not familiar with Helix or Zed, so I took a look at the links. Both webpages prominently state that the editors are written in Rust. This reduces my interest in both projects. As a user, I do not care what language my editor is implemented in. Maybe I want a fast editor, or maybe I want a feature-rich editor. The closest I would come to caring about this is if I want an extensible editor - can I extend these ed…

Don't let the “built|written in Rust” taglines put you off either project.

Both are fast editors built by passionate teams offering compelling out-of-the box experiences. They're worth taking five minutes to download and try (or apply for the waitlist in the case of Zed).

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