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Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B

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Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public funds should not pay to rebuild the same property more than 1-2 times within N years. You either: a) Build the property to withstand all but 1-2 statistically expected hurricanes within that N year period. This is possible, it's just costly. b) You don't get public funds c) You get private insurance d) You don't build

> Public funds should not pay to rebuild the same property more than 1-2 times within N years. No doubt with N carefully calibrated to depopulate the parts of the country you don't like, but not the part you live in. The west coast has too many earthquakes, depopulate it!

> No doubt with N carefully calibrated to depopulate the parts of the country you don't like, but not the part you live in.

N is carefully calibrated by actuaries with hard data. Insurance companies stopped offering flood insurance to much of Florida decades ago - they're now covered by a federally subsidized program called the NFIP that has about five million policies. It has been a money pit since 2004 for obvious reasons.

California got plenty of federal funds to rebuild after the Northridge quake and what did the state do? It spent the next four years improving building codes - benefiting the entire country - and plowed the money into seismic retrofits. When >90% of home insurers pulled out, instead of depending on a federal program, the state created the California Earthquake Authority which is almost entirely privately funded within the state. I have no doubt the next big earthquake will require federal assistance but there hasn't been a major incident in nearly thirty years and the state, insurers, and homeowners have done a lot to mitigate future catastrophe.

The same thing is happening now in California with wildfires: many people in rural areas can only get insurance through the California FAIR Plan. The big difference is that the FAIR Plan is funded entirely through premiums and state funds. Very little if any federal funding goes to it because Trump turned it into a hot button issue just a few years ago. That's the one to watch out for, not earthquakes.

Edit: phrasing

Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B

#182
post #6

That seems cheap? Like incredible cheap for the size of the storm.

I know COVID stimulus has numbed people to large numbers, but $100B is a huge amount of money. It's two million people working for a year at $50k salary

Creating some more numbers costs us nothing — that number would be better measured against the accruing negative value of Florida’s (and other coastal states’) economic downtime instead of as a thing with any worth of its own: https://web.archive.org/web/20220104144948/https://www.treas...

“Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything. This has been the case since 1933. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy.”

Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of feels like doublespeak. Most migrants come for work, not to escape persecution. Economic migrants use asylum as a way to avoid being deported.

From a legal standpoint that is irrelevant. Until their asylum case is adjudicated, they are here legally.

all immigration is legal if you claim to be an asylum seeker. It’s not intended to be a deportation-delayer for economic migrants.

Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God the fact this comment keeps going gray really bothers me. You're 100% correct and these people are acting lawfully. I get that HN often swings conservative, but I gotta believe if we were in these folk's shoes some of us would be seeking a better life for ourselves through asylum in America.

I am for 100% open borders, I acknowledge asylum seekers are allowed in the country, and I agree your statement they are doing what many of us would do. I see nothing ethically wrong with what they're doing. That said, anyone who doesn't understand the undertone here, that the great majority will be denied asylum, that a great number are claiming asylum in a way that is coached/contrived/embellished, or that they cou…

> These are the things many of us know, but aren't supposed to say out loud in some polite circles.

You're spending the majority of your comment saying "great numbers" of these folks are claiming asylum in bad-faith. You imply "great numbers" of them are here to game/play the system. You call a "great number" of them liars. You imply that they're criminals (not acting lawfully).

> I applaud their efforts

No you don't. You're painting "great numbers" of these people out to be untrustworthy to the point of preemptively calling them criminals.

---

> and the idea that all these people are 'acting lawfully' is not only factually incorrect I assert you KNOW it is factually incorrect and use it here as propaganda

Instead of asserting what I know, maybe provide sources for your argument. I take it as an outright aggression toward me that you posit I am spreading propaganda.

Regardless. I rebut:

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014704117

> We find that undocumented immigrants have substantially lower crime rates than native-born citizens and legal immigrants across a range of felony offenses. Relative to undocumented immigrants, US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes.

It's common sense that if you're looking to immigrate somewhere that you're not out there looking to break the law. Every study I have come across in regards to this seems to have similar outcomes. They know if they break the law they will likely be deported; and they typically act accordingly because they want to live, work, and raise their families in America.

I take great issue with you claiming I'm spreading propaganda. In good-faith I assure you, I am not.

Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B

#185
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We need to push FEMA to have a 2 and done rule. After that the property must be returned back to dunes/parks/public spaces." My response was to this comment at the top, where it was, explicitly and objectively, supporting a policy that dictates where people should live.

FEMA doesn't decide where you live, but they do provide federally subsidized flood insurance. He's suggesting that we should stop doing that for two total loss events on the same property. Folks have had their houses rebuilt with other people's money really often - and build it in the exact same spot, because the feds will come build it again. Even though it's going to get destroyed, again.

I understand. However if gov does not provide disaster aid then you are effectively telling people where to live. Few will accept the risk without the prospect of disaster aid and insurance, which would be unobtainable if the area was ruled uninhabitable by the federal government.

Entire communities, and their economic output, will vanish. A good example are communities whose entire existence is owed to revenue generated by commercial fishing. What do you do with all the fishermen who don't know any other line of work?

Teach them to code?

Long Island, NY is prone to flooding and wind-damage from hurricanes and nor'easters. Areas are routinely destroyed or heavily damaged. Notable years are 1950, 1954, 1960, 1986, and 1999.

Asheville, NC is prone to flooding, land & rock slides, and the occasional earthquake. It is probably one of the state's most natural wonders, and the country-side a lovely place to live.

During periods of heavy rain and tropical events, downtown NYC floods the subways and streets and doing expensive salt water damage.

I know of no place on earth that is without some susceptibility to natural disaster. So where do we draw the line?

Effectively, such a rule would define these and other places as uninhabitable and render them ineligible for both commercial insurance and federal disaster aid. That seems so foolish and counter to our tradition as a nation. Such a rule would see the splintering and end to many long-standing communities.

If the concern is cost, you may want to turn your attention to discretionary federal expenditures.

Surely we can find places to cut bloat, pork, and wasteful spending, particularly in areas that range from nothing to very-little to do with the United States, her citizens, or their needs and emergencies that are a part of living on planet earth.

It is almost like that 75 billion we printed for Zelenskyy could have been used to help Americans.

Lastly, where does it end? How do we define the formula for making these rules, and who gets the define and apply that formula? Best case scenario, if this rule was a thing, you'd be looking at consolidating large parts of American society into more 'manageable' locations and mega cities, which were decreed as somehow having the least amount of risk, and lowest possible expense...

...in a vain attempt at avoiding the risk and expenditures of natural disasters?

...that happen everywhere?

...routinely.

It just seems foolish when you work through it to a practical end.

Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B

#186
post #41

I bet the venn diagram of floridians who want bailout money but object to student debt relief is quite close to a circle.

Also the Venn diagram of Floridians who supported the No vote on aid after Sandy for NY and wanting federal aid now

Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't overflowing vessels of infinite empathy and sympathy. They can't be faulted for running dry once in a while.

That seems like a low cop-out and an excuse to be an asshole.

Personally speaking being from a state that they recently tried to attack using migrants as human pawns, I don’t see a reason to have sympathy for the state.

Individuals who didn’t support those attacks and want to work together, sure. The state as an aggregate entity? Absolutely not.

Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B

#188
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason people live in coastal regions is because there are outsized economic benefits to the hinterlands that may outweigh the damage these storms inflict. The interface between land and sea is crucially important for the survival of civilization at our scale. Under "2 and done", do you restore critical port infrastructure to dunes if they get destroyed by a hurricane twice? Port infrastructure can't exist on its…

Private insurers will not cover homes in coastal areas that flood frequently. It is simply not financially viable. Many beach properties have subsidized government insurance.

This is what needs to stop. If government provides cheap insurance. The building on coast is a great idea.

Geraldo Rivera did a special on it many years ago. He lost his house. Didn’t cost him a dime. Was planning on rebuilding due to cheap insurance. Which he seemed to find ridiculous.

Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B

#189
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That goes for severe blizzards for NYC as well, because I say so. Public funds must no longer be allocated to clearing snow from roads every year just because selfish people decide to live in NYC.

Are those federal funds being used for snow clearage?

FEMA spent about two billion on New York from Sandy.

Re: Hurricane Ian damages in Southeast estimated at $100B to $120B

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason people live in coastal regions is because there are outsized economic benefits to the hinterlands that may outweigh the damage these storms inflict. The interface between land and sea is crucially important for the survival of civilization at our scale. Under "2 and done", do you restore critical port infrastructure to dunes if they get destroyed by a hurricane twice? Port infrastructure can't exist on its…

Yet fire and earthquake damage are not generally covered by FEMA in California in most cases (I would expect the Big One, when it happens, to be, but based on the big stink that Trump raised to the applause of certain states, like Florida, about cutting back wildfire prevention/disaster funds to CA in 2019, who knows) and economically that state is much more important than Florida. And thus California has very-high d…

Wild fire destroyed my home I California. FEMA gave me a check for 25 grand.
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