Dojo Toolkit 1.7 Released. • Hacker News Board

Re: Dojo Toolkit 1.7 Released.

#31

Post by Meai » Fri, Dec 02, 2011, 10:57 AM UTC

tizoc wrote: post #11

DrCatbox wrote: post #2

And not a single fuck was given. Does anyone actually think dojo has a future compared to the power that jquery gives to make your own "widgets" but far simpler than dojo? The simplest tutorials in the dojo documentation put html tags in the JavaScript code. Generating them like strings. It reminds me of the days when people would generate html (and javascript, oh god) using Java. Dojo is too big, too complicated and…

Dojo is extremely modular (unlike jQuery which is has a pretty big monolithic core and overloads $ for almost everything). If what you have to do is manipulate the DOM and do XMLHttpRequests, then jQuery is more than good enough, otherwise Dojo has a lot to offer. Some features from Dojo which are not about DOM manipulation or XMLHttpRequests that I use a lot: - AMD-style modules (you can have this with jQuery, but D…

That modularity is nice in theory, but Dojo gives me 170kb of compressed javascript simply for selecting the fileuploader widget. I saw the same for Google Closure Library by the way - not saying I could write an all purpose js library which would score better.

Re: Dojo Toolkit 1.7 Released.

#32

Post by dylanks2 » Fri, Dec 02, 2011, 12:37 PM UTC

Meai wrote: post #31

tizoc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dojo is extremely modular (unlike jQuery which is has a pretty big monolithic core and overloads $ for almost everything). If what you have to do is manipulate the DOM and do XMLHttpRequests, then jQuery is more than good enough, otherwise Dojo has a lot to offer. Some features from Dojo which are not about DOM manipulation or XMLHttpRequests that I use a lot: - AMD-style modules (you can have this with jQuery, but D…

That modularity is nice in theory, but Dojo gives me 170kb of compressed javascript simply for selecting the fileuploader widget. I saw the same for Google Closure Library by the way - not saying I could write an all purpose js library which would score better.

That's one of the major things that 1.7 fixes and 1.8 will fix even further... smaller modules and finer-grained dependencies so you aren't pulling in nearly as much base code for each feature.

Re: Dojo Toolkit 1.7 Released.

#33

Post by dylanks2 » Fri, Dec 02, 2011, 12:43 PM UTC

ColdAsIce wrote: post #29

hughw wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

data-blah is HTML 5 legal and dojo is changing its patterns to use it. dojoAttachPoint is an attribute dojo uses in widget templates. I don't really know what you would propose to replace it (except data-attachPoint, say). If you're going to design a tempting system you need a binding mechanism, and that's what dojo does. You can't complain too much about abusing the liberty HTML has always allowed with unrecognized…

Because I, for one, would like to keep my HTML separate from my Javascript. Separate looks and from behaviour. The HTML is created already from another templating system server-side, its a pure hell to introduce HTML from Javascript and mix it.

That's fine. Dojo doesn't make this decision for you. Instead it gives you a full range of tools to choose for yourself how you want this to work.

Some UI widgets (Dijits) choose to use a client-side HTML fragment, but others do not have that requirement. Some of the work on projects like xstyle and put-selector seek to reduce this reliance further.

Dijits can be invoked either through extra markup in your base HTML page, or through a JS constructor. In the HTML templated widgets, there are attributes that bind DOM nodes to reference variables in your JS, so the widget knows where to insert content, or subwidgets, etc., and where to attach DOM events. The HTML isn't stored in JS, it's stored in an HTML file that gets combined through build tools (so you don't need to do this mix in process, it just works).

But again, that's an optional feature that's used primarily by the widget system and some of the widgets in Dojo.

Re: Dojo Toolkit 1.7 Released.

#34

Post by ColdAsIce » Fri, Dec 02, 2011, 9:00 PM UTC

lobo_tuerto wrote: post #30

ColdAsIce wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most apps I worked on required only querying and events. Animations can be done with css3, but if we wherent working with html5 then simple fadein/out animations are also required. Specifically dojo has this useless dijit widget collection. For any serious web app I doubt you would find dijit suitable to exactly your needs. Which means you have to develop your own using the query/animation/events api.

"Most apps I worked on required only querying and events." Well, that's not really quite the background to call the dojo widgets useless. They are a really useful set of _programmable_ widgets. Aye, they _might_ appear to be useless to developers used to cut & paste, but if you delve a little deeper you will discover a world of useful UI widgets that can fulfill most of your needs for rich web applications. If your n…

Because there is really no need for the widgets dojo provides. In every project where a widget kind of thing was required - the requirement also included it to be developed in house, exactly suited to our needs. If we would have chosen dojo widgets we would have had to alter them heavily to do what we want, the way we want it, the way it fits with our codebase. We did that once though, and learned not do try that again.

How is using dojo widgets not "cut and paste"? Thats exactly what cut and paste is, all the jQuery stuff we develop is our own, not cut and pasted. If we really wanted to use dojo widgets, some in the team would have to dig deep into dijit, which makes the whole thing useless since they might as well develop their own "widgets" using jquery in less time, and less maintenence, and less dependency on yet another abstraction/library.