Live data from Hacker News

Nordstream: An Accident?

thelawdogfiles.com

121–130 of 176 posts

Re: Nordstream: An Accident?

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A non-state actor is possible, but unlikely. It would require an organization, a small group at least, that had the inclination, opportunity, skill and resources. Any one or two of those is easy, but to actually do it requires all of those simultaneously. Furthermore such a serious attack from eco-terrorists would be fairly unprecedented. It's a far cry from torching a resort or tree spiking.

Releasing colossal amounts of methane directly into the environment would be an odd choice for an eco-group too.

Probably, but there conceivably might be some 'ends justify the means' logic that could motivate it. There have been some eco-terrorist attacks against nuclear power plants for instance, which on the face of it seems contradictory but I presume is justified using some sort of "raise awareness" logic. But without any eco-terrorist group taking credit for this, such a motivation seems particularly unlikely.

Re: Nordstream: An Accident?

#123
post #78

Shaped charges are easy to make [0], and technical divers can go to 70 meters. I don't think it's out of line to think that German eco-terrorists could have done it. So the whodunnit list is quite long. [0] https://youtu.be/UHoqYi8XOA4?t=427

Eco terrorism is a made up concept. It doesn't exist outside of James Bond. Besides, this leak has horrible environmental consequences. If it was a deliberate attack, extremely successful, wouldn't some group have taken responsibility by now?

Re: Nordstream: An Accident?

#125
post #36
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And who actually gains from this in the long run... Certainly not Germany or Russia... Should make it pretty clear. It could be UK as tradition of breaking down Europe, but they are having enough issues that the timing is entirely wrong... I don't think China cares, so maybe Arabs, but I doubt. Only really leaves USA and we know what they have historically been up to.

I have a hard time with it as well. It harms so many parties, it just doesn't make sense to be state-sponsored. But at the same time, this requires some real resources to execute something like this. I can imagine mid-sized corporations having access to the resources to do it, but not without leaving a significant paper trail. I don't imagine terrorist organizations have that kind of funding. The US is a good candida…

> The US is a good candidate, but I don't see how it hurts Russia more than it hurts the rest of Europe.

How do you calculate the hurt? Absolute hurt, or relative hurt? If I take $20 from you and $10 from a homeless man, I've taken more from you in absolute terms but more from the homeless man in relative terms.

Re: Nordstream: An Accident?

#126
post #78

Shaped charges are easy to make [0], and technical divers can go to 70 meters. I don't think it's out of line to think that German eco-terrorists could have done it. So the whodunnit list is quite long. [0] https://youtu.be/UHoqYi8XOA4?t=427

Eco terrorism is a made up concept. It doesn't exist outside of James Bond. Besides, this leak has horrible environmental consequences. If it was a deliberate attack, extremely successful, wouldn't some group have taken responsibility by now?

https://www.amazon.com/How-Blow-Pipeline-Andreas-Malm/dp/183...

Re: Nordstream: An Accident?

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Factions in Russia do gain from it; specifically, Putin’s. There’s no point in overthrowing him to turn the pipeline back on if the pipeline doesn’t exist.

I doubt Putin's subjects would want to overthrow him because they want to be able to sell gas again. They might overthrow him, but for other reasons.

Subjects selling gas? I don't think he's implying a populist uprising to champion free market principles.

Gazprom executives may wish to resume their lives of absurd luxury yachting around the Mediterranean. They probably don't enjoy being sanctioned and deprived of the luxury they think they're entitled to.

Re: Nordstream: An Accident?

#128
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no argument for "running on the opposite direction". The OP piece doesn't meet any reasonable standard to be considered an intellectual submission and hence the terse response. Highly speculative opinion not grounded in fact and blatantly pushing a conclusion . . . what else can you say? Why is this even submitted to HN? A conversation starter?

I was clearly responding to a comment ironically saying we should trust the mainstream press if we argue we shouldn't trust random blogs

The random blog brings up a theory, the mainstream media is already pointing finger towards russia, it's pretty clear which side makes assumptions without proof.

Re: Nordstream: An Accident?

#129
"Recently, some climate activists have begun to openly contemplate the possibility — in their eyes, the necessity — of directly sabotaging the infrastructure of the carbon economy. Foremost among them is the academic Andreas Malm, whose recent book, “How to Blow Up a Pipeline,” [1] calls for smashing the tools of fossil-fuel extraction as a last-ditch means of averting ecological collapse. In interviews with mainstream outlets such as Vox and The New Yorker, Malm contends that climate activists should give up their dogmatic attachment to pacifism and start to destroy the machines that actually produce carbon. " [0]

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/26/magazine/earth-liberation...

[1] https://www.amazon.com/How-Blow-Pipeline-Andreas-Malm/dp/183...

Re: Nordstream: An Accident?

#130

"Recently, some climate activists have begun to openly contemplate the possibility — in their eyes, the necessity — of directly sabotaging the infrastructure of the carbon economy. Foremost among them is the academic Andreas Malm, whose recent book, “How to Blow Up a Pipeline,” [1] calls for smashing the tools of fossil-fuel extraction as a last-ditch means of averting ecological collapse. In interviews with mainstre…

What are the odds they would happen to choose a pipeline that

1) Isn't actually delivering gas in the present, and may never again for political reasons.

2) Is so central to ongoing international disputes as well as a war.

Point 1 negates the practical impact. Point 2, and also their failure to take credit for it, negates the symbolic value.

Post reply on HN