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Google is shutting down Stadia

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Re: Google is shutting down Stadia

#841
post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with you, but I downvoted your comment because > We devoted an entire month of resources to this project and thought that was enough! ...is not just wildly inaccurate, but also disrespectful to the people who spent years working on it.

but also disrespectful to the people who spent years working on it. Something being tragic doesn't make it not a waste of time. The writing was on the wall since day one . Nobody was going to pay full price for games that evaporate the moment the servers shut down being offered by the most ADHD company in existence. If you chose to spend your time and energy working on that and expected to accomplish anything other t…

The excerpt I quoted isn't about whether it was a waste of time or a savvy career move, just about the total amount of work that went into it.

Re: Google is shutting down Stadia

#842

Absolutely devastated about this. I love Stadia. I bought it for a friend last Christmas and we have been using it this year to play games together, she has a Macbook which cannot play a lot of PC games and the Stadia model works a lot better for us. Despite the lack of AAA titles, it had everything we wanted to play, we just started playing overcooked on it. Now I do not know what we will do. Geforce now will requir…

Looks like Overcooked 2 (but not the first one) runs on Mac - buy it on Steam and then you can use GeForce Now or the Macbook depending on what's more convenient (I imagine any relatively recent macbook would run it just fine, it's not a super demanding game).

Re: Google is shutting down Stadia

#843

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with you, but I downvoted your comment because > We devoted an entire month of resources to this project and thought that was enough! ...is not just wildly inaccurate, but also disrespectful to the people who spent years working on it.

>...is not just wildly inaccurate, but also disrespectful to the people who spent years working on it. Fortunately you are here to be anonymously offended on their behalf.

I'm not anonymous; it's easy to figure out my identify from my HN profile.

I didn't work on Stadia, but I did work on Google Fiber for a couple years only to have almost all that work cancelled, and I'm still sad about it many years later. At the time, I really wouldn't have appreciated people on HN rubbing salt in the wound.

Re: Google is shutting down Stadia

#844
It's always harmful to your reputation to shut down a service, but it is especially harmful when it is an ecosystem or platform play where you are burning the good will of third parties who co-invest to create the platform. Clearly stadia is in that second category. While Google can refund consumers for their purchases they can never make up for the opportunity cost those parties suffered.

At this point, I can't see how Google can ever launch another platform or ecosystem except on a 100% transactional basis.

Re: Google is shutting down Stadia

#845

I used Shadow [1] for a couple years. They basically give you a windows VM and you install whatever you want. All the other big players limited the games you could install, which was a deal breaker for me. I think there's 1 or 2 others that have a similar model to Shadow, but they are pay by the hour. Shadow was great, when they had a California datacenter (~20ms latency). I noticed zero lag most of the time. Once th…

Latency is the aspect of cloud gaming I'll never understand. There are literal physics based limits on how fast you can transmit a signal (and a lot more practical ones on top of those). I keep thinking that someone must have some secret sauce they've come up with, but unless Google or someone can invent faster light, I'm not sure what that would be. Obviously the closer you can get the compute to the screen, the bet…

[deleted]

Re: Google is shutting down Stadia

#847
post #248
post #43

Just a couple of months ago. "Stadia is not shutting down. Rest assured we're always working on bringing more great games to the platform and Stadia Pro." https://twitter.com/GoogleStadia/status/1552989433590214656

I mean, it was probably a lie. But, also, things may have changed. It's not like Google didn't just go through a big hiring freeze and budget process.

Hmm, I suppose it's interesting to consider who lied in this instance. It was demonstrably false, but it seems possible the person tweeting it didn't know this at the time.

However someone at Google let that tweet go out with no intention of fulfilling that promise, that most definitely does constitute lying.

Re: Google is shutting down Stadia

#848
post #782

Everybody is talking about how terrible Google and their culture is, so I'll just put it out there that this is great news for gamers. Cloud-based gaming services are a terrible deal for gamers. Gamers shouldn't cede so much control to some 3rd party who will be watching over their shoulder and collecting every scrap of data on them and their friends while they play. We don't need our performance in games being used…

How is a terrible deal? I would literally need to spend at least a 1000 dollars for a gaming pc, and that is 4 years of GeForce now, without considering maintenance, the space, etc. I’m playing cyberpunk 2077 max settings on a 2cm thick MacBook Pro, I don’t have a bulky pc to move every time I move, and most importantly, if I ever get bored I’ll simply stop paying instead of having a pc collecting dust

There's no doubt that cloud gaming services are convenient, but you give up a lot for that. If you don't really care about having access pulled out from under you, or your games being censored/changed, or your personal data being collected and used against you than it's probably worth it, but for gamers and gaming as a whole it's a problem.

You don't even need a bulky PC. You can get a gaming laptop if your worried about space/mobility. No doubt the video cards are expensive though.

Re: Google is shutting down Stadia

#849
Somehow I don't think this surprised anyone. I just did a quick check and the same people who were making these kinds of decisions when I was there all appear to still be there (at least by their social status indicators like LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook). Back in early 2009 when "the mortgage crisis" was the big financial scare, I talked with folks about the difference between "moon shots" and "products".

The former (also called Black Swan events in Finance) are things that change everything all at once, the latter are things that a company produces to diversify their revenue risk. Google had just released the Dream (the G1 phone) and given all the employees one so we could "eat our own dogfood" and the biggest takeaway was that the biggest issue here was that this sort of "product" really really needed a real customer support function. Google was fixated on using "smart people and technology to completely eliminate the need for 'lame' customer support that was expensive and needed managers and stuff." One 'senior' engineer (who was 'senior' by virtue of their time at Google, their first job out of school, and not because of their years of industry experience, explained to me that by 2011, 2012 at the latest, no company anywhere would use "people" for customer support, it would all be web driven, "knowledge trees", and smart dialog agents that could do anything real people could do.

I had worked previously at NetApp where they spent a ton of money and invested a lot in insuring their customers were supported, and I tried to explain that it wasn't the '90%' problem it was a '10%' problem. Your automated system can deal with 90% of the problems, but 10% of them were 'weird', special cases, that no automation would be able to deal with. And ignoring that, and leaving 10% of your customer base angry and unsupported, was death for any retail product.

I see the same thing with 'self driving' too, your car can do 90% of the things you need it to do on its own, and then that last 10% are the things that kill you.

When Stadia was announced I looked to see if they had learned about the need for real people support and it didn't appear they had. And they were dealing with "the Internet" which for engineers looks like a smooth low latency pipe between your computer and theirs, but for real people is a series of networks that have to be transited with support levels that vary between enterprise level and sixth grader enthusiast level. And with all that randomness between the product and the customer, no 'people' support to create a good "we hear you, we're on it" experience and more importantly a strong feedback loop to engineering/marketing/sales about what is causing the most trouble for prioritization of resources, and poof. It was dead on arrival. It just took a while for Google to figure that out.

I mentioned in my exit interview that I hoped they would internalize that problem before they ran out of search advertising revenue runway, but 10+ years on it looks like that isn't happening.

Re: Google is shutting down Stadia

#850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I think happens in situations like these (from experience) is that the team is trying as hard as they can to prevent shutting down. And they either believe they'll succeed, or believe they can't succeed without boosting the expectation that they'll succeed by explicitly claiming they aren't shutting down. If you say, both to the public and to the team, that you might shut down but you're not sure yet, that's as…

I like this statement. It doesn't imply ill-will such as intentional lying or selfish intent as most other posts do. This statement simply shows that people are trying to make their projects succeed in a complicated environment. From my experiences, most people are doing what they think is right. We should take more time understanding why people think what they are doing is right, even when we may perceive the action…

If management isn't committed, it's still a lie to say they are.

Morals matter even when they are inconvenient.

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