Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Battle Erupts over Alleged Grisly Photos of Brain-Hacked Neuralink Monkeys

futurism.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 30 posts

Re: Battle Erupts over Alleged Grisly Photos of Brain-Hacked Neuralink Monkeys

#21

Post by quantified »

addicted wrote: post #16
lm28469 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He does have a point about food animals though. People can make a choice for themselves, most don't because deep down they don't give a fuck, many do though

But many, in fact most, people do. There’s a reason a bunch of states passed laws making it illegal to photograph the warehouses where these animals are raised. If there was a transparency law, that required an accurate picture of the location where the animals whose meat is being sold was raised to be stuck on the packaging it wouldn’t be very long before the more inhumane (or more accurately, the more inhumane look…

And, cigarettes have to show lung damage photos (federal) and reproductive health clinics need to show you sonograms of your fetus (state).

Re: Battle Erupts over Alleged Grisly Photos of Brain-Hacked Neuralink Monkeys

#22

Post by mturmon »

lm28469 wrote: post #12
bergenty wrote: post #2

You know, I honestly don’t care. It’s probably tens to hundreds of monkeys at the most, they’re probably pumped full of drugs so they don’t feel the pain during implantation and I’m sick of blocking any sort of progress in anything due to ethical concerns. We literally kill millions of cows a day and we’re okay with it, let’s extend some of that understanding to technological progress as well.

> progress Something being new doesn't mean it's progress Lead paint was progress Asbestos was progress Freon was progress > We literally kill millions of cows a day and we’re okay with it, You might, I'm not, millions of people aren't

Agree, and it's worth it to point out this lazy and insidious usage of "we".

Here's Christopher Hitchens on this habit, in the first paragraphs of an early essay called "The `We' Fallacy":

> Lionel Trilling once wrote a short essay on the problem of ‘we’. Apparently, whenever he said of a novel or other work under review that it engaged ‘our’ sympathy, or that ‘we’ felt repelled by the author’s assumptions, he would receive letters of complaint. Who was this ‘we’, the letterwriters demanded to know, and what allowed Trilling to speak for ‘us’ in this way? The literary critic’s experience may not seem immediately relevant to contemporary politics.

> But as one surveys the dismal field of political commentary, it is hard not to conclude that half the cretinism of the mainstream media is attributable to the ‘we’ fallacy. This is especially true in any discussion of imperialism. There is talk of ‘our’ interests, ‘our’ credibility, and ‘our’ will. [...]

Re: Battle Erupts over Alleged Grisly Photos of Brain-Hacked Neuralink Monkeys

#23

Post by nobodyandproud »

farisjarrah wrote: post #14
UnFleshedOne wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He does have a point about food animals though. We are perfectly ok with treating them horribly their whole lives to save few cents on the costs (not to mention killing them at all). Yet we pretend to be shocked when something that makes us feel squeamish happens. And then go right back to chewing on that steak...

Just because people eat meat out of a package from the super market does not mean they are okay with their bacon being raised on a farm where the pig was in a 1 square meter cage its whole life. Most people don't have the time, effort, or will to fight against large factory farming practices because they are too busy trying to survive and take care of themselves and their families. You can eat meat and still care abo…

> Just because people eat meat out of a package from the super market does not mean they are okay with their bacon being raised on a farm where the pig was in a 1 square meter cage its whole life. Most people don't have the time, effort, or will to fight against large factory farming practices because they are too busy trying to survive and take care of themselves and their families.

Unless one is a hunter-gatherer, meat eating isn’t about survival.

Instead, what it means is that they may care; but not enough to give up or work on giving up the pleasure of eating meat daily.

Re: Battle Erupts over Alleged Grisly Photos of Brain-Hacked Neuralink Monkeys

#24

Post by nobodyandproud »

addicted wrote: post #16
lm28469 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He does have a point about food animals though. People can make a choice for themselves, most don't because deep down they don't give a fuck, many do though

But many, in fact most, people do. There’s a reason a bunch of states passed laws making it illegal to photograph the warehouses where these animals are raised. If there was a transparency law, that required an accurate picture of the location where the animals whose meat is being sold was raised to be stuck on the packaging it wouldn’t be very long before the more inhumane (or more accurately, the more inhumane look…

> Because most people are willing to pay a little bit more if they fully understand the ethical consequences. Actually, what is more likely to happen is that many people would eat meat less frequently, opting for more plant based sources of protein and then spend the extra money needed for the more humane meat when they wanted meat itself.

Most people I’ve grown up with are aware but don’t care or just put it out mind.

Willful blindness is a very human condition and a terrifying one.

Re: Battle Erupts over Alleged Grisly Photos of Brain-Hacked Neuralink Monkeys

#25

Post by traverseda »

lm28469 wrote: post #19
traverseda wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listen, no one is going to defend these excesses of capitalism, the tracking the increasingly user hostile designs, the anti-competitive consolidation and rent seeking behavior. But seriously, you're going to take research into actual human-machine interfaces and boil them down to "implant that lets you buy toilet paper by blinking"? I mean maybe the entire field of computing goes ethically bankrupt, even if the wall…

> it can still be used for dumb prosthetics and increase the quality of life for a lot of people. Who and how ? Virtually every megacorp is busy showing you ads or taking your money when you buy the shit you saw in their ads. Everything has been corrupted, no one can assume good faith anymore

By that logic is there any point in doing any sort of research on anything?

Re: Battle Erupts over Alleged Grisly Photos of Brain-Hacked Neuralink Monkeys

#26

Post by soulofmischief »

farisjarrah wrote: post #14
UnFleshedOne wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He does have a point about food animals though. We are perfectly ok with treating them horribly their whole lives to save few cents on the costs (not to mention killing them at all). Yet we pretend to be shocked when something that makes us feel squeamish happens. And then go right back to chewing on that steak...

Just because people eat meat out of a package from the super market does not mean they are okay with their bacon being raised on a farm where the pig was in a 1 square meter cage its whole life. Most people don't have the time, effort, or will to fight against large factory farming practices because they are too busy trying to survive and take care of themselves and their families. You can eat meat and still care abo…

I'd like to introduce you to the concepts of vegetarianism and veganism, with which one can claim to care about the welfare of factory farmed animals without being full of crap.

No one is forcing these people to participate. Being overworked is an absolutely ridiculous excuse for not being able to cut out unethically farmed meat from your diet.

Re: Battle Erupts over Alleged Grisly Photos of Brain-Hacked Neuralink Monkeys

#27

Post by soulofmischief »

addicted wrote: post #16
lm28469 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He does have a point about food animals though. People can make a choice for themselves, most don't because deep down they don't give a fuck, many do though

But many, in fact most, people do. There’s a reason a bunch of states passed laws making it illegal to photograph the warehouses where these animals are raised. If there was a transparency law, that required an accurate picture of the location where the animals whose meat is being sold was raised to be stuck on the packaging it wouldn’t be very long before the more inhumane (or more accurately, the more inhumane look…

These people don't care how many children were involved in the production of their iPhone and Nike shoes, they DEFINITELY don't care about the ethics of their meat consumption.

Re: Battle Erupts over Alleged Grisly Photos of Brain-Hacked Neuralink Monkeys

#28

Post by CactusOnFire »

lm28469 wrote: post #19
traverseda wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listen, no one is going to defend these excesses of capitalism, the tracking the increasingly user hostile designs, the anti-competitive consolidation and rent seeking behavior. But seriously, you're going to take research into actual human-machine interfaces and boil them down to "implant that lets you buy toilet paper by blinking"? I mean maybe the entire field of computing goes ethically bankrupt, even if the wall…

> it can still be used for dumb prosthetics and increase the quality of life for a lot of people. Who and how ? Virtually every megacorp is busy showing you ads or taking your money when you buy the shit you saw in their ads. Everything has been corrupted, no one can assume good faith anymore

You lost me here.

My gut feeling from reading the article and this thread has been that the monkeys should have been better taken care of. But the idea that every human advancement will only result in a win for the capitalist hellscape is some blackpill bullshit.

There are people who are trapped inside their own bodies due to neurological disabilities. Even if neuro-interfacing technology is used to huck consumer convenience devices, there are likely positive impacts on devices used to help these people. I don't really care about the 90% of people who are lining up to buy the neurolink equivalent of an iphone. I care about what those implications have for a disabled minority, as do many other people here who are commenting.

You don't have to feel like the trade-off is worth it, but if you aren't going to acknowledge that maybe technological process presents opportunities to help people, than you are being willfully ignorant.

Re: Battle Erupts over Alleged Grisly Photos of Brain-Hacked Neuralink Monkeys

#29

Post by ashwagary »

bunkmaster1337 wrote: post #5
bergenty wrote: post #2

You know, I honestly don’t care. It’s probably tens to hundreds of monkeys at the most, they’re probably pumped full of drugs so they don’t feel the pain during implantation and I’m sick of blocking any sort of progress in anything due to ethical concerns. We literally kill millions of cows a day and we’re okay with it, let’s extend some of that understanding to technological progress as well.

You can experiment on yourself and no one bats an eye.

Yes, I'm completely fine with Elon putting electrodes and implants in his own brain to further science.

Re: Battle Erupts over Alleged Grisly Photos of Brain-Hacked Neuralink Monkeys

#30

Post by bergenty »

salawat wrote: post #20
bergenty wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethics can’t be black and white. There has to be a reasonable middle ground and clearly human testing is way, way past what’s acceptable. You can call it a slippery slope but everything is and it’s the reason we have laws to keep things sane.

>the reason we have laws to keep things sane. https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/06/us/california-bees-fish-court... https://www.amazon.com/Emergency-Sasquatch-Ordinance-Actuall... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_Unit... https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/anti-jewis... Oh yes. It's the laws that will save us, and keep everything sane. /s Let's try this again shall we? Ethics and morali…

>nearer term gratification

You can perseverate all you want, but someone else is going to get there before us then and we won’t be in a hegemonic position to enforce our ethical framework (fwiw I think is good) over the rest of the world. A bad actor will be in that position and you cause more pain through inaction.

Post reply on HN