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Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

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Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#501

Post by everforward »

User23 wrote: post #476
everforward wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that much more incoherent. It's absolutely possible to believe that things should be allowed without a moral component. I believe woodworking should be allowed. Not because it's "good" or "bad", but because people want to do it and there aren't sufficient harms to warrant trying to ban it. Some people feel the same about porn and sex work. It's something people want to do, they believe there aren't sufficient…

> I find that much more incoherent. It's absolutely possible to believe that things should be allowed without a moral component. That’s a bit odd on account of claiming that something is morally neutral is clearly a moral assertion. That being said, can you imagine why perhaps sex might have greater moral significance than canoe-making? > Many people who use the word "good" to describe porn and sex work are describin…

> That’s a bit odd on account of claiming that something is morally neutral is clearly a moral assertion.

Morally neutral and being without a moral component are different. Gravity lacks a moral component; it is neither good nor bad, it just exists. Moral neutrality contains opposing good and bad effects, with neither significantly outweighing the other. Killing someone in self-defense could be seen as morally neutral. Killing someone is bad, but saving people is good, causing a wash. Someone who kills another in self-defense isn't a bad person for doing so, but it also doesn't make them a better person.

> That being said, can you imagine why perhaps sex might have greater moral significance than canoe-making?

In the context of porn, genuinely not. Canoe-making seems like it has far greater moral significance. It's a practical skill and potentially a bonding experience with others. Porn is maybe a waste of time, but it's hardly alone there. It's like playing with a fidget spinner, which I don't find morally significant either.

> That’s fascinatingly novel. Can you explain the difference or at least distinction between a “moral” “good” and a “beneficial” “good?”

A beneficial good lacks a moral component, or is morally neutral as you would say. A scooter is a beneficial good; it allows people to get places faster, so they can do what they want. It's not morally good to own and use one, and it's not morally bad to not do so. Its merits are amoral. A moral good is something that has a clear moral component; feeding the homeless is morally good, not doing so is morally bad.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#502

Post by reilly3000 »

MrVandemar wrote: post #479
reilly3000 wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blarg. I read the summary of it, it’s going on my list thx. I grew up with a patriarch mentality and took it into my marriage and business. It’s just plain wrong, it’s effects are severe, and it’s been a long personal journey to relearn and reinterpret stuff. I’m not on a crusade per se, but I guess I’m at a place where I’m now sharing aggregated angst I’ve heard from women and read about. Men absolutely have unmet n…

Re: the phrase I don't see colour. Do you have a reference or link for that research? That dovetails elegantly into something I'm dealing with right now.

I haven’t been able to find the paper where I saw colorblindness used as a measure, but I

Eduardo Bonilla-Silva Has written on the topic for many years. This is one of his more cited works: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/000276421558682...

And full text of a more recent article:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/233264922094102...

https://scholarworks.umass.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1...

I found this recent dissertation which cites the earlier papers I shared, and has some very specific insights into race and gender in engineering education, which seems relevant. https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/1698...

The Legitimation of Black Subordination: The Impact of Color-Blind Ideology on African American Education Dawn G. Williams and Roderic R. Land The Journal of Negro Education Vol. 75, No. 4 (Fall, 2006), pp. 579-588 (10 pages) Published By: Journal of Negro Education https://www.jstor.org/stable/40034659

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#503

Post by marcus_holmes »

osrec wrote: post #245
marcus_holmes wrote: post #128

I investigated this a few years ago in Australia. Sex work is legal in Australia, kinda. It is legal to exchange sexual services for money, but supporting and assisting such a transaction is illegal. So a landlord who rents a property to a sex worker is breaking the law. A payment processor who processes the card transaction is breaking the law, and so on. There are some clauses around managing establishments that ba…

What were their tech issues?

mainly "is there any way I can accept credit card payments?"

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#504

Post by marcus_holmes »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #352
Brian_K_White wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like none of my or your business. Neither of us has any legitimate interest in them other than do they rob anyone? Do they burn down houses? Do they perform at some job and pay taxes? If they spend all their money on prostitutes, it's no more your business than if they spend it all on video games or cars or rare stamps.

I don't agree. A society where prostitution is welcomed and celebrated is very different than one where it's not, and it's entirely reasonable for me to say I'd like to live in the second kind of society. You mention cars, so I'd point to muffler mandates as a good analogy - an un-muffled car won't rob anyone or burn down your house, but because they're loud and annoying they've been prohibited.

Have you ever lived in a society that welcomes and celebrates sex work? The only one that springs to mind is Holland, and they have a great society. I would much rather Australia had Dutch attitudes to this (and a bunch of other stuff; Aussies are secretly very authoritarian)

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#505

Post by bhedgeoser »

erfgh wrote: post #490
bhedgeoser wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Median onlyfans income is $150 per month. You have to be in the top 5-10% for it to be a viable source of income.

I was talking about prostitution.

Median hooker salary is 27k. Not exactly a high paying job.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#506

Post by Brian_K_White »

Volundr wrote: post #500
Brian_K_White wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said consentual sex causes any harm? I'm arguing the opposite. The argument that women will interpret the posters as a message that they are seen as objects is potentially interesting, but then what about all the women who work at modelling agencies and ad agencies and actual sex related businesses? The argument that women will feel threatened because the posters will cause the men to attack them, or even just lo…

> Who said consentual sex causes any harm? I'm arguing the opposite. The comment I'm replying to is. They are arguing that prostitution is somehow harmful to them and should be banned. I'll note the analogy of a poster on the wall of ones workplace is pretty poor, unless someone is advocating that prostitutes should be manning the hallways of Google. If you don't want to be exposed to prostitution it's easy to avoid.…

"> Who said consentual sex causes any harm? I'm arguing the opposite.

The comment I'm replying to is."

Doh, right, sorry.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#507

Post by Etherlord87 »

bandie91 wrote: post #492
npteljes wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>ostracizing sex work is almost entirely normalized 100%. One of the universal curses people throw at each other is implying that someone's mother is a prostitute, or that they are a product of extramarital sex, implying the promiscuity of the mother. This all is hand-in-hand with the implied comtempt towards women of course.

"son of a b_tch" implies "son of an adulterer/fornicator"

This is an educated, albeit only a speculation of mine that I never confirmed: in the past (medieval times) people used to describe inferior things by comparing them to dogs like "dog's weather", "you will die like a dog" and many other sayings. It's wrong to think that your mother is being insulted by being called the "son of a bitch" (it's also pointless to censor the word as you did). What it means, or at least what it originally meant, is that you came out of a womb of a dog.

In other words, if you're with your mom in a room, and someone calls you a son of a bitch, the claim is not that the woman you take for your mom is a bitch, rather, that you're wrong and your mom is actually not in the room (unless there's also a female dog in that room).

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#508

Post by micromacrofoot »

daniel-cussen wrote: post #497
micromacrofoot wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind reading walls of text. Why kind of mitigation costs $25000? This is something maybe I'm unaware of. (Also are there a lot of street fights where you live? I'm not sure I could handle that myself)

If you get accused of Rape and get a trial, it costs $25000 for the lawyer. A lawyer quoted me that when I asked, post-lynching, when I finally got counsel like 11 years later. That's the price! Guess the price of college has been going up a bit fast! And by the way, financial aid won't cover that. Lawrence Lessig put it best when I asked him to help me lawyer up, "it's a rich kid school." Although in that case it's…

Oh wow, maybe I'm reading into it too much... but your billionaire father turned on you due to a rape allegation? that seems like a very difficult situation.

I wear flip-flops often myself, but they're definitely not good for fighting or running, I can see that.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#509

Post by MrVandemar »

reilly3000 wrote: post #502
MrVandemar wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: the phrase I don't see colour. Do you have a reference or link for that research? That dovetails elegantly into something I'm dealing with right now.

I haven’t been able to find the paper where I saw colorblindness used as a measure, but I Eduardo Bonilla-Silva Has written on the topic for many years. This is one of his more cited works: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/000276421558682... And full text of a more recent article: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/233264922094102... https://scholarworks.umass.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1..…

Thank you so much. Lots of exceptionally interesting reading to dig into there.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#510

Post by forgetfreeman »

vorpalhex wrote: post #499
forgetfreeman wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reeks of hyperbole you say? I invite you to attend services at the Southern Baptist church of your choosing and then try bringing up the topic of sex workers after services. Depending on where you attempt this you might make it to your car under your own power. Your claim that I'm advancing a strawman argument here strongly suggests to me that you may not have a solid grasp on conservative attitudes on this topic.…

I actually grew up in a Southern Baptist church, worked in it for a few years and still ocassionally interact with that community. First of all it's a diverse community, both in skin color and in national origin. Second, I have never seen any member of that group do any worse than engage in debate. That you "might not make it to your car" is such hilarious hyperbole that it's bordering on satire. That sex work is dan…

You aren't the only one here who grew up in a Southern Baptist church and buddy I see you over there pretending the 700 club isn't a thing. I've seen fist fights break out during funeral services on more than one occasion so don't piss in my pocket and tell me it's raining.
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