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UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

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Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#71

Post by ClumsyPilot »

rvz wrote: post #12

He's right you know. We've waited long enough for the UK to come up with one for 40 years and the only one people can think hard enough of an example is ARM, which that has become a acquisition football by NVIDIA, Softbank and having the UK government getting involved in the ordeal. (No, Imagination Technologies is also gone before you mention that.) So there are no credible candidates worthy for being a tech giant i…

ARM and Imagination Technologies were worthy companies. They could have been giants if they had access to the kind of financial muscle that the US market provides

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#72

Post by azinman2 »

tablespoon wrote: post #66
SilverBirch wrote: post #4

It sounds to me like he doesn't actually say that. In the article: >The UK has “no chance in hell” of becoming technologically sovereign Well which is it, having our own Tech champs or being technologically sovereign? Because they're totally different things. To be honest I'm not sure any country apart from China stands any chance of becoming technologically sovereign. Like what does that mean? Do we need to mine our…

> To be honest I'm not sure any country apart from China stands any chance of becoming technologically sovereign. IMHO, the US probably could manage it too: it has a big population and lots of natural resources. The reason it isn't is more of issue of ideology and will: it was far more technologically sovereign in the past than it is now, but chose to give that up so some investors could get more profits in the short…

I don’t know what you call short term, because this has been decades in the making. I’d at least call it medium term.

The flip side is now the US is more competitive globally as the products can be priced as such, in addition to consumer price decreases. You also have the issue that most Americans don’t want the ultra low paying jobs necessary to build all this stuff, nor want the environmental damage from the mining.

So it’s not so simple as just some greedy evil villains we can point to.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#73

Post by ClumsyPilot »

donmcronald wrote: post #9

I don’t know anything about ARM, but is the IP ownership a big deal compared to the manufacturing? My first reaction was to think I’d do everything possible to keep ARM as a domestic company, but does it even make a difference if they don’t actually produce (ex:) CPUs? I can’t run my workload on IP. The expertise is worth something though. We’ve seen that in Canada with companies like Nortel. Once those companies are…

> I don’t know anything about ARM, but is the IP ownership a big deal compared to the manufacturing?

Apple manufactures nothing, all they have is IP

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#74

Post by sgt101 »

I've spoken with Hauser about this - his point (in 2012 when I had the conversation) was that the UK simply did not have access to a market big enough to support a global champion. I said (given the date) but what about the EU and he said no, because in fact the single market is fractured and filled with barriers. I asked well, what about French and German Tech companies?

Hauser looked at me and said : yes.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#75

Post by ClumsyPilot »

origin_path wrote: post #62
Jweb_Guru wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am neutral on the position of UK "technological sovereignty" but I don't think listing a bunch of people who died before 1900 really helps demonstrate your point.

Alan Turing didn't die before 1900. Agree he isn't exactly relevant to the question of a modern tech sector, but these examples are at least interesting for what they show isn't the problem. A comment above AtomicOrbital's argues it's to do with a "deferential, hierarchical society" and that "bureaucracy is great for running an empire". That clearly can't be the case, given that Britain churned out computing pioneers…

> banning non-competes

Are non-conpetes a violation of free market because they stop employees moving freely to a better job?

Or are they free market in action, becauae thats what employer and employee negotiated?

To the best of my knowledge non-conpetes are illegal in most of europe.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#76

Post by hosh »

foobarian wrote: post #42
hosh wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. China has been building out their railroad net for years now, both internally and reaching outwards 2. Those synergize with the loans. They are not "some" loans 3. Cultural exports have been going on for a while, though it has not been as successful as South Korea or Japan 4. China has been seriously wooing back Western-educated citizens to head R&D in a variety areas, for the past ten years or so. Quality-of-life…

> 7. China needs to secure a supply of crude oil Wonder how that's coming along. I'm sure those African countries will stand up for China even when they can't get any oil.

Despite the unfavorable terms for the loan, I hear that the Chinese are regarded well in those countries.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#77

Post by oblio »

sgt101 wrote: post #74

I've spoken with Hauser about this - his point (in 2012 when I had the conversation) was that the UK simply did not have access to a market big enough to support a global champion. I said (given the date) but what about the EU and he said no, because in fact the single market is fractured and filled with barriers. I asked well, what about French and German Tech companies? Hauser looked at me and said : yes.

> I've spoken with Hauser about this - his point (in 2012 when I had the conversation) was that the UK simply did not have access to a market big enough to support a global champion.

Samsung, Hyundai/Kia, TSMC, Toyota, etc.

A lot of local brands have figured out that you can bootstrap a product locally and then just focus relentlessly on the American market, after which you can practically conquer the world.

Asian companies for some reason do this well. European companies fail horribly.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#78

Post by ClumsyPilot »

origin_path wrote: post #60
pasabagi wrote: post #3

Reading between the lines of his quote, my guess is he's angling for some cash from the government, by securitizing the tech sector. It won't work, because the treasury feels that spending money, like eating people, is always wrong. It won't cost any politicians anything when the bits and pieces of the UK tech sector go down the pipes, because their fortunes rest entirely on house prices, and the opinions of the fine…

This is the same Treasury that just had its top civil servant and minister replaced, specifically in order to allow a massive splurge of borrowing and money printing on an ahistoric scale? That Treasury? The UK's problem is not government unwillingness to spend money. The US tech sector was primed and bootstrapped almost entirely without government money after the wall fell, and even before that it was largely indepe…

> The US tech sector was primed and bootstrapped almost entirely without government money

This is mostly wrong, if you read the enterpreneurial state.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#79

Post by ClumsyPilot »

jimnotgym wrote: post #61
t43562 wrote: post #44

Well, the nerds aren't the super rich here. It's still about public schools and old money and people who studied law or the classics or at least graduated from Oxbridge. The big money in software is all from the world of finance and there's nothing tech about them - no heart or vision except how to make a faster trade. So who will foster a company that's not going to make money for 10 years? I think there's also an a…

All true. VC's in the UK only share the name of their US cousins. They invest in established business. They are full of the orthodoxy expected of a bunch of ex-big 4 accountants that went to expensive schools. A startup in the UK is a son of a rich man who wants to set up doing whatever, and leverages their Old Boys network to get customers. Banks are so risk averse that it is laughable.

The idea that you could raise money based on a powerpoint presentation, like Dropbox did, is laughable in UK.

The investment culture is hard to describe with a word other than cowardly.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#80

Post by prottog »

Zigurd wrote: post #58
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya, China's Zero COVID policy has reversed this trend for sure. It isn't just getting lockdown that people are worried about, but the inability to freely travel without a long quarantine at the end of the trip.

TBF China hasn't got a lot of choice. They do not have a highly effective vaccine. Millions of people in China would die if COVID were allowed to spread. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I'm not advocating that millions of people die in a vacuum, but millions of people risking death so that the other billion people in China could live a normal life is at least worth considering the trade-off.

The median age of a Covid death in the US, with its obese and unhealthy population, is around the average life expectancy with some room for error. I can't imagine that China fares worse in that regard.

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