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Harrison Bergeron (1961)

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Re: Harrison Bergeron (1961)

#261

Post by cableshaft »

Vecr wrote: post #259
cableshaft wrote: post #23

Several years ago I participated in a local writing anthology that was about "Near Myths", i.e. taking existing myths and fairy tales and twisting them in some way. I wasn't feeling inspired by any until I thought of Harrison Bergeron, which was a childhood favorite story of mine and left a lasting impression. I decided to twist the story and make it about a world in which everyone had to constantly be coming up with…

Similar to the r9k 4chan board and the xkcd post that inspired it, yeah?

Wasn't aware of that, but yeah, kind of. Thanks for sharing, that's pretty interesting.

Re: Harrison Bergeron (1961)

#262

Post by ras3022 »

WalterBright wrote: post #155
bnralt wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Story from a local school: Parents of the more advanced math students in the grade requested some sort of more advanced math opportunities for their kids. School didn't provide any. When several of the kids used a more advanced math concept they had learned outside of school to solve a problem, the teacher told them to not do it that way because they hadn't learned it yet. The school does provide extra classes for ki…

Note the contrast between that and the athletic department, where schools are absolutely delighted to get a kid with an aptitude for sport, and push him hard to achieve.

Unless of course you have a school with a math department and a math team that competes.

Across American I'm sure it's the exception, and not the rule, to have a math department and a math team.

But in California, especially the Bay Area, they're not uncommon. All the public high schools, and many of the middle schools, in my city have them. Private schools will vary based on their priorities.

Re: Harrison Bergeron (1961)

#263

Post by mcguire »

WalterBright wrote: post #237
mcguire wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the test-driven nature of modern education in the US, having 1000 kids that can just read at grade level is better than having 985 kids at grade level, 5 below, and 10 above. Any resources spent on the latter would be better spent on the 5 that are below grade level.

How can you determine if the students learned anything without testing?

How do you know a prospective employee is worth hiring without testing?

Re: Harrison Bergeron (1961)

#264

Post by fallingknife »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #149
commandlinefan wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife is Mexican. Us calling ourselves Americans drives her crazy (so I make a point, every time we visit her family in Mexico, of loudly declaring, "well, goodbye America!")

Latin Americans feeling perturbed by the 'American' demonym is certainly understandable. Nevertheless, I feel that 'USian', despite being motivated by an understandable disgruntlement, is used/proposed in bad faith for these reasons: 1) 'American' is the demonym a consensus majority of Americans have have chosen for themselves. 2) 'USian' only works in textual conversation, in spoken conversation it is one small mumb…

No it isn't understandable because they don't ever call themselves Americans. It's purely a pedantic and sanctimonious point.

Re: Harrison Bergeron (1961)

#265

Post by fallingknife »

woodruffw wrote: post #125
dublin wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Vonnegut, to his credit, died long before he would have had to hear someone accuse him of writing a short story about “wokeism.” The story is about envy. Vonnegut said as much whenever he was asked about it: it’s directly inspired by his own feelings of creative inadequacy. Shoehorning it into some execrable 2022 political statement is embarrassing.

Yes the story is about envy. And wokeism is also about envy. So the comparison is fair.

Re: Harrison Bergeron (1961)

#266

Post by mcguire »

LazarWolf_ wrote: post #211
mcguire wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the test-driven nature of modern education in the US, having 1000 kids that can just read at grade level is better than having 985 kids at grade level, 5 below, and 10 above. Any resources spent on the latter would be better spent on the 5 that are below grade level.

I think this argument presupposes that denying resourcing for the 10 will definitely improve the success of the 5. Personal side note; I’ve tended to find that exceptional people are more productive with the resources given. So I find it hard to believe the inverse would also be true.

I think I misstated my argument. :-)

The way schools are currently measured, the 5 are very, very important and the 10 are completely irrelevant. The only judgement is how many of the students are below the appropriate skill level. I don't believe anyone even measures how much in advance of the skill level students at or above the minimum are.

Re: Harrison Bergeron (1961)

#267

Post by WalterBright »

mediumiqsad wrote: post #243
WalterBright wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it doesn't really matter if someone isn't athletic Tell that to people who faked athletic credentials to get into the college of their choice. Or who get in with full academic scholarships because they're good at football. I'm not advocating ignoring 990 kids that can't read, not at all. What I am suggesting is ignoring the 10 geniuses and not taking advantage of them is both unfair and bad for society. Consider th…

Most of those people would not be considered geniuses to Caltech educated elites like you. I personally think ignoring the top 10 students is perfectly fine because they can clearly already manage. The rest of us can’t, but are still considered subhuman by your Bell Curve reading ilk.

In most larger universities, you can get an elite education by carefully selecting which courses to take.

1. take the honors track

2. 90% of the classes should be STEM

3. the STEM classes should be heavy on the math

4. avoid classes the stoners and cheaters take

5. classes should entail 2-3 hours of work for every hour of lecture

6. work towards getting As, not just passing

7. don't cheat, you'll be sorry if you do

8. be prepared to work your ass off

Re: Harrison Bergeron (1961)

#269

Post by mcguire »

WalterBright wrote: post #268
mcguire wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know a prospective employee is worth hiring without testing?

Indeed. That's why they get tested.

Would you hire them based only on a competency test?

This is how schools are judged: what proportion of their students pass a minimum competency test.

Re: Harrison Bergeron (1961)

#270

Post by lliamander »

LtWorf wrote: post #256
MichaelCollins wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You put words in his mouth, which is rude. He was on the receiving end of it, not me, but I can still see that what you did was insulting.

He did say he didn't want to pay taxes to help the less fortunate. So I offered my view of what that looks like… he didn't care to state his view, but preferred to pull the "i'm offended" card to not reply. Which makes me think he actually had no answer to the question, and just doesn't like taxes, but doesn't like to be told he's a bad person for the inevitable consequences that has.

> He did say he didn't want to pay taxes to help the less fortunate.

Of course, I literally didn't say that. I think it's probably obvious to most people how what I said differs from your interpretation.

> So I offered my view of what that looks like… he didn't care to state his view, but preferred to pull the "i'm offended" card to not reply.

I did not play the "I'm offended" card. You chose to be a dick. If you want people to engage with you in substantive dialogue, don't be a dick.

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