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UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

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Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#61
post #44

Well, the nerds aren't the super rich here. It's still about public schools and old money and people who studied law or the classics or at least graduated from Oxbridge. The big money in software is all from the world of finance and there's nothing tech about them - no heart or vision except how to make a faster trade. So who will foster a company that's not going to make money for 10 years? I think there's also an a…

All true. VC's in the UK only share the name of their US cousins. They invest in established business. They are full of the orthodoxy expected of a bunch of ex-big 4 accountants that went to expensive schools.

A startup in the UK is a son of a rich man who wants to set up doing whatever, and leverages their Old Boys network to get customers.

Banks are so risk averse that it is laughable.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#62

For newcomers ARM cpu was/is designed in the UK ... Say nothing about Alan Turing who first conceived of how digital computation can happen using hardware then went on to help design and build one of the first computers and yes he coded it to use a Bayesian algorithm... Not to mention Thomas Bayes, De Morgan, Charles Baggage and Boole of boolean logic fame just for starters

I am neutral on the position of UK "technological sovereignty" but I don't think listing a bunch of people who died before 1900 really helps demonstrate your point.

Alan Turing didn't die before 1900. Agree he isn't exactly relevant to the question of a modern tech sector, but these examples are at least interesting for what they show isn't the problem. A comment above AtomicOrbital's argues it's to do with a "deferential, hierarchical society" and that "bureaucracy is great for running an empire". That clearly can't be the case, given that Britain churned out computing pioneers when it was at the height of its imperial power.

I think the actual reasons are a lot simpler than some imputed aspect of the British national character. Obviously, struggling to compete with US tech supremacy isn't limited to the UK. Specifically:

1. Outside the USA there's no real culture of granting equity to early stage employees. Interestingly, ARM was one of the very few exceptions. Incentivized and passionate employees are considered non-negotiable for US startups, not so elsewhere.

2. The USA and California specifically has some laws that happen to be really good for founding successful internet startups e.g. banning non-competes, at will employment, the first amendment, and so on. UK and EU have the opposite: lots of laws that make it difficult or risky.

3. The USA benefits from a large internal market with homogenous language and timezones. When British computer companies tried to expand into the USA all kinds of logistical issues got in the way of them scaling up, both in the USA and Europe. It's much easier for a company to get big in the US and then start picking off local markets one by one.

The first two problems often combine. Try setting up an employee equity scheme for a new startup in Europe. You'll find the tax systems often make it absurdly complicated or even impossible, and accountancy/legal firms are usually inexperienced with it. I'm going through this problem right now. I asked for a US style straight equity vesting scheme - no options even - and got back some wacky alternative that involves buyback clauses, contractual promises to continue granting equity even after termination for cause and contains nonsensical statements. Justification is local tax law. Sigh.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#63
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya, China's Zero COVID policy has reversed this trend for sure. It isn't just getting lockdown that people are worried about, but the inability to freely travel without a long quarantine at the end of the trip.

TBF China hasn't got a lot of choice. They do not have a highly effective vaccine. Millions of people in China would die if COVID were allowed to spread. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[deleted]

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#64
post #44

Well, the nerds aren't the super rich here. It's still about public schools and old money and people who studied law or the classics or at least graduated from Oxbridge. The big money in software is all from the world of finance and there's nothing tech about them - no heart or vision except how to make a faster trade. So who will foster a company that's not going to make money for 10 years? I think there's also an a…

Yes, you're completely right. Not that I'm in favour of the wealth inequality in the US, but in some ways it's one of the US's biggest assets. There are a lot of people in the US who are so excessively wealthy they're willing to throw money at moon-shot companies (and sometimes simply ideas) that will almost certainly never yield them a return.

You don't get companies like Space X and Blue Origin without extremely ambitious and extremely wealthy individuals and the US has a large amount of both. In the UK people are generally far more conservative both with their ambitions and with their investments. We do have innovative tech companies here, but they're far less ambitions than those you'd typically find in the US. Things like food delivery, customisable greeting cards, accounting services, etc.

I think to a lesser extent there are geographical, demographical and regulatory advantages to starting tech companies in the the US too. In the UK employers have provide paid holiday, maternity leave, and pay national insurance contributions for everyone they employee. This isn't a huge issue if your a profitable company, but things like this add up if you're trying to bootstrap a company with a limited amount of VC money. Similarly, we can't scale as easily because of our geographical and demographical limitations. Europe isn't as easy to scale into for various geographic and cultural reasons and the UK as a domestic market is far smaller than the US.

While nothing I've said makes it impossible for the UK to create a tech giant, it does stack the odds against us. And just based on relative population size we're already 5 times less likely to create a tech giant when compared to the US.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#65

For newcomers ARM cpu was/is designed in the UK ... Say nothing about Alan Turing who first conceived of how digital computation can happen using hardware then went on to help design and build one of the first computers and yes he coded it to use a Bayesian algorithm... Not to mention Thomas Bayes, De Morgan, Charles Baggage and Boole of boolean logic fame just for starters

Nitpick: Charles Babbage was the first to conceive digital computing in hardware - just mechanical instead of electrical.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#66

It sounds to me like he doesn't actually say that. In the article: >The UK has “no chance in hell” of becoming technologically sovereign Well which is it, having our own Tech champs or being technologically sovereign? Because they're totally different things. To be honest I'm not sure any country apart from China stands any chance of becoming technologically sovereign. Like what does that mean? Do we need to mine our…

> To be honest I'm not sure any country apart from China stands any chance of becoming technologically sovereign.

IMHO, the US probably could manage it too: it has a big population and lots of natural resources. The reason it isn't is more of issue of ideology and will: it was far more technologically sovereign in the past than it is now, but chose to give that up so some investors could get more profits in the short-term. It's unlikely to change, since the ideologies that drove those choices are still strong.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#67

It sounds to me like he doesn't actually say that. In the article: >The UK has “no chance in hell” of becoming technologically sovereign Well which is it, having our own Tech champs or being technologically sovereign? Because they're totally different things. To be honest I'm not sure any country apart from China stands any chance of becoming technologically sovereign. Like what does that mean? Do we need to mine our…

> To be honest I'm not sure any country apart from China stands any chance of becoming technologically sovereign. IMHO, the US probably could manage it too: it has a big population and lots of natural resources. The reason it isn't is more of issue of ideology and will: it was far more technologically sovereign in the past than it is now, but chose to give that up so some investors could get more profits in the short…

I wonder what percentage of the population it was that made the decision to "choose to give it up".

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#68
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. China has been building out their railroad net for years now, both internally and reaching outwards 2. Those synergize with the loans. They are not "some" loans 3. Cultural exports have been going on for a while, though it has not been as successful as South Korea or Japan 4. China has been seriously wooing back Western-educated citizens to head R&D in a variety areas, for the past ten years or so. Quality-of-life…

> 7. China needs to secure a supply of crude oil Wonder how that's coming along. I'm sure those African countries will stand up for China even when they can't get any oil.

Would Russia not be a more natural source of this? I know they're not exactly best pals but China is maybe one of the closer countries to Russia outside of Belarus and Syria rn.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#69
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be honest I'm not sure any country apart from China stands any chance of becoming technologically sovereign. IMHO, the US probably could manage it too: it has a big population and lots of natural resources. The reason it isn't is more of issue of ideology and will: it was far more technologically sovereign in the past than it is now, but chose to give that up so some investors could get more profits in the short…

I wonder what percentage of the population it was that made the decision to "choose to give it up".

A smaller percentage made the many impactful choices, a larger percentage went along with it. For example, some people have always been intently "buy American", most haven't been. Few if any "buy American" people were ever involved in or supportive of moving the jobs to China, India, Phillipines, or Mexico. And it'll be iffy as to whether they have 401(k) gains from the financiers' decisions to do the movement.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#70
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 7. China needs to secure a supply of crude oil Wonder how that's coming along. I'm sure those African countries will stand up for China even when they can't get any oil.

Would Russia not be a more natural source of this? I know they're not exactly best pals but China is maybe one of the closer countries to Russia outside of Belarus and Syria rn.

I wonder how they would pay for it. The world market operates in US dollars so presumably they'd have to set up some kind of bilateral arrangement and I doubt Russians would accept Yuan.
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