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UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

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Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#11

Post by fooker »

Zigurd wrote: post #6
SilverBirch wrote: post #4

It sounds to me like he doesn't actually say that. In the article: >The UK has “no chance in hell” of becoming technologically sovereign Well which is it, having our own Tech champs or being technologically sovereign? Because they're totally different things. To be honest I'm not sure any country apart from China stands any chance of becoming technologically sovereign. Like what does that mean? Do we need to mine our…

No nation, anywhere on the planet, is by itself technologically sovereign. The ability to get by in the world is a cooperative venture for everyone, even the US. What makes first tier technological nations different is the alliances of which they are active contributing members. Those alliances make trade flow smoothly and securely. That is what creates prosperity in an interconnected world. That is especially import…

> China has one formal alliance.

This is a geopolitical trope about 20 years out of date. Don’t be surprised when dozens of African and Asian countries choose China over Western interests if push comes to shove.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#12

Post by rvz »

He's right you know.

We've waited long enough for the UK to come up with one for 40 years and the only one people can think hard enough of an example is ARM, which that has become a acquisition football by NVIDIA, Softbank and having the UK government getting involved in the ordeal. (No, Imagination Technologies is also gone before you mention that.)

So there are no credible candidates worthy for being a tech giant in the UK.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#13

Post by scythe »

SilverBirch wrote: post #4

It sounds to me like he doesn't actually say that. In the article: >The UK has “no chance in hell” of becoming technologically sovereign Well which is it, having our own Tech champs or being technologically sovereign? Because they're totally different things. To be honest I'm not sure any country apart from China stands any chance of becoming technologically sovereign. Like what does that mean? Do we need to mine our…

Lithium, ironically, is one of the few resources that the UK has plenty of.

https://inis.iaea.org/search/searchsinglerecord.aspx?records... (1987)

https://cornishstuff.com/2021/02/02/high-grade-of-lithium-fo... (2021)

Other things, like nickel, would be more problematic.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#14

Post by tialaramex »

Doches wrote: post #2

Reading between the lines, this is actually one of the side-goals of the zombie Online Safety Bill. Require all apps with user-created content to use a UK-approved 'identity provider' for age verification, and only issue approval to a handful of home-grown companies. Et voila, a whole thriving tech /sector/ where the UK can legitimately claim to be world-leading, even if they did invent the whole thing out of whole c…

The assumptions underpinning that legislation are from about 2016. A Tory government apparently can't achieve much in six years but the Internet changed considerably. The technical mechanisms described (DNS blocking to force UK users to use UK approved sites) are no longer achievable, which means the budgetary impact goes up very considerably, for this programme which would be unpopular.

Now, if a government thinks a few decrepit Tory voters picking a new PM counts as a fresh mandate for radical economic strategies, maybe they also think a $10B pa budget line item for "Block Facebook?" is a good idea. So maybe they'll do this anyway. But it won't work.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#15

Post by seanmcdirmid »

fooker wrote: post #11
Zigurd wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No nation, anywhere on the planet, is by itself technologically sovereign. The ability to get by in the world is a cooperative venture for everyone, even the US. What makes first tier technological nations different is the alliances of which they are active contributing members. Those alliances make trade flow smoothly and securely. That is what creates prosperity in an interconnected world. That is especially import…

> China has one formal alliance. This is a geopolitical trope about 20 years out of date. Don’t be surprised when dozens of African and Asian countries choose China over Western interests if push comes to shove.

> Don’t be surprised when dozens of African and Asian countries choose China over Western interests if push comes to shove.

And don't be surprised if they don't. Even if China has a lot of frenemies on its border in Asia, every country in Asia has some fear over China, and this often pushes them to improve their relationship with the USA (e.g. Vietnam). Even Russia and North Korea have some antagonism with China. None of their relationships are particularly strong.

> This is a geopolitical trope about 20 years out of date.

I don't think. China hasn't done much to court soft power in the last 20 years beyond a some loans for infrastructure made by Chinese companies. They still are inwardly focused.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#16

Post by alephnerd »

Zigurd wrote: post #6
SilverBirch wrote: post #4

It sounds to me like he doesn't actually say that. In the article: >The UK has “no chance in hell” of becoming technologically sovereign Well which is it, having our own Tech champs or being technologically sovereign? Because they're totally different things. To be honest I'm not sure any country apart from China stands any chance of becoming technologically sovereign. Like what does that mean? Do we need to mine our…

No nation, anywhere on the planet, is by itself technologically sovereign. The ability to get by in the world is a cooperative venture for everyone, even the US. What makes first tier technological nations different is the alliances of which they are active contributing members. Those alliances make trade flow smoothly and securely. That is what creates prosperity in an interconnected world. That is especially import…

Pakistan's airforce works closely with Chengdu Aerospace Corporation - the JF-17 Thunder [0] being their flagship product. That said, even Chinese flagship aerospace manufacturers also depend on IP transfers from Russian firms like Klimov and UEC Saturn. Also, most companies require some amount of IP transfer and collaboration because of how complex Engine design, Body design, etc are, as well as the fact that collaboration incentivizes collaborating countries to purchase these weapon systems. Aerospace, cybersecurity, enterprise partnerships, weapons systems - it's all the same business model.

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC/PAC_JF-17_Thunder

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#17

Post by Mindwipe »

tialaramex wrote: post #14
Doches wrote: post #2

Reading between the lines, this is actually one of the side-goals of the zombie Online Safety Bill. Require all apps with user-created content to use a UK-approved 'identity provider' for age verification, and only issue approval to a handful of home-grown companies. Et voila, a whole thriving tech /sector/ where the UK can legitimately claim to be world-leading, even if they did invent the whole thing out of whole c…

The assumptions underpinning that legislation are from about 2016. A Tory government apparently can't achieve much in six years but the Internet changed considerably. The technical mechanisms described (DNS blocking to force UK users to use UK approved sites) are no longer achievable, which means the budgetary impact goes up very considerably, for this programme which would be unpopular. Now, if a government thinks a…

I'm afraid "it won't work" is not something British politicians care about very much, as we can see today.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#18

Post by elil17 »

SilverBirch wrote: post #4

It sounds to me like he doesn't actually say that. In the article: >The UK has “no chance in hell” of becoming technologically sovereign Well which is it, having our own Tech champs or being technologically sovereign? Because they're totally different things. To be honest I'm not sure any country apart from China stands any chance of becoming technologically sovereign. Like what does that mean? Do we need to mine our…

"Technologically sovereign" means that a country is able to get the technologies it needs to achieve it's goals either internally or through alliances that don't create a "one-sided structural dependency." [1]

Saying that the UK isn't technologically sovereign is essentially saying that the UK has an undersized technology sector and doesn't have enough power to import effectively. On the flip side, you could view it as meaning that the UK has outsized geopolitical and economic ambitions given its size and technological capabilities.

[1]: https://olc.worldbank.org/system/files/Webinar%201-4_Present...

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#19

Post by formerkrogemp »

tialaramex wrote: post #14
Doches wrote: post #2

Reading between the lines, this is actually one of the side-goals of the zombie Online Safety Bill. Require all apps with user-created content to use a UK-approved 'identity provider' for age verification, and only issue approval to a handful of home-grown companies. Et voila, a whole thriving tech /sector/ where the UK can legitimately claim to be world-leading, even if they did invent the whole thing out of whole c…

The assumptions underpinning that legislation are from about 2016. A Tory government apparently can't achieve much in six years but the Internet changed considerably. The technical mechanisms described (DNS blocking to force UK users to use UK approved sites) are no longer achievable, which means the budgetary impact goes up very considerably, for this programme which would be unpopular. Now, if a government thinks a…

> A Tory government apparently can't achieve much.

You could just stop there. I've yet to see, in decades of Tory rule, much but decline, neglect, and scandal. Tax cuts and service cuts. That's all everyone needs apparently. Unfortunately, labor seems so incompetent at gaining power that it seems almost like a "managed opposition." Maybe I'm being too generous to their electorate as well. The UK is a tourism attraction at this point, a historical relic found in a curio shop or flea market. Or soon will be at its current clip.

Re: UK Has ‘No Chance in Hell’ of Making Its Own Tech Champs: ARM Founder

#20

Post by uup »

Zigurd wrote: post #6
SilverBirch wrote: post #4

It sounds to me like he doesn't actually say that. In the article: >The UK has “no chance in hell” of becoming technologically sovereign Well which is it, having our own Tech champs or being technologically sovereign? Because they're totally different things. To be honest I'm not sure any country apart from China stands any chance of becoming technologically sovereign. Like what does that mean? Do we need to mine our…

No nation, anywhere on the planet, is by itself technologically sovereign. The ability to get by in the world is a cooperative venture for everyone, even the US. What makes first tier technological nations different is the alliances of which they are active contributing members. Those alliances make trade flow smoothly and securely. That is what creates prosperity in an interconnected world. That is especially import…

China also has a security agreement with the Solomon Islands. While a tiny nation in and of itself, the use of the islands by the Chinese navy allow for quite a bit of force projection into the pacific. It would be very hard, for instance, for the U.S. to use their navy to defend Australia or Taiwan.
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