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We reduced our server costs by moving away from AWS

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Re: We reduced our server costs by moving away from AWS

#91
In general, last time I looked at AWS it made sense from 2TB to 30TB a month, and under 400k connections a day. If either range was exceeded, than the service ceased to be the economical choice when compared with CDN providers, and colo/self-managed unlimited-traffic options.

For example, if you primarily serve large media or many tiny files to clients that don't support http Multipart Types, than AWS can cost a lot more than the alternatives. However, AWS is generally an economical cloud provider, and a good option for those who outsourced most of their IT infrastructure.

The article would be better if it cited where the variable costs arose.

Re: We reduced our server costs by moving away from AWS

#92
I've said this a hundred times and it seems not loud enough.

AWS is not cheap because of your server costs.

AWS is cheap because of elasticity, velocity (opportunity cost of next feature), and reduced maintenance hours.

"The cloud" was never (afaik) was about getting a cheaper VPS. It was about being able to get them on demand, give them back on demand, and generally not have to maintain anything besides your code (and maybe apply updates to datastores / AMIs)

Now, if those premises are not true for your startup/business, then AWS is not the tool for you. I didnt see any analysis of ongoing maintenance costs in the 800k saved, but will it take 1-2 FTE engineers to now be more oncall, more server upgrades, more security patches etc? That's easily 1/2 that savings gone already.

Edit: for the most part these attributes apply to GCP, Azure, Heroku etc as well, its not just about AWS

Re: We reduced our server costs by moving away from AWS

#93
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most businesses I've worked in: developer costs >> infrastructure costs An AWS large server is around $500/year, which is about 1-2 developer hours (with taxes, overhead, etc) at the cost scales last time I priced this out. That's crazy expensive in the absolute, but if it saves a couple of hours, it makes sense. PaaS providers cost even more. I've gone with those in the past, since it basically eliminated dev-ops…

I consider this a fallacy. I´m on the dedicated server camp, but had to use AWS in a "everything in cloud" company. I spend way more time with Lambda/Cloud formation/ECS shenanigans than the terraform recipe I use in dedicated servers. And this is not even considering the higher latency between services and how hard is to debug it. In your case, you are not exchanging 2 hours of a developer for a higher bill. In my e…

> the dedicated server camp,

> spend way more time with Lambda/Cloud formation/ECS

As you said, it's not your expertise. No one said AWS could be used well by non-experts. The point isn't the learning curve, but the terminal velocity once you get there.

Re: We reduced our server costs by moving away from AWS

#94
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. If you use and manage AWS resources as you would your own on-prem resources then you're not going to have a good time. As soon as you think you need EC2 instances you need to re-think your architecture. You're probably not using AWS most effectively.

What I don't understand is why anyone would spend, precious and expensive engineering resources on coding to a proprietary API owned by one of the largest companies on the planet to whom you are nothing. Ok so you save money on the monthly bill but what happens when Amazon decides they want to enter your market? What happens if they decide your service is too controversial and they kick you off? If you were deploying…

> What I don't understand is why anyone would spend, precious and expensive engineering resources on coding to a proprietary API owned by one of the largest companies on the planet to whom you are nothing.

Who cares if it's proprietary? You're either locked in to a proprietary stack or you have to go out of your way to cobble together a FOSS stack on bare metal, in which case you're essentially locked into that.

> Ok so you save money on the monthly bill but what happens when Amazon decides they want to enter your market?

If AWS helps me get to market faster and cheaper than the alternatives, I don't particularly care what the rest of Amazon does.

> What happens if they decide your service is too controversial and they kick you off?

Normal businesses don't have to worry about this. I've honestly never heard of anyone getting kicked off of AWS unless they were doing something extremely sketchy.

> If you were deploying your own services to EC2 instead of using AWS's own services you could at least setup shop elsewhere with just a bit of work.

True, if this is truly all you're doing, you can probably find better options elsewhere at this point. But pretty soon, you're going to be interesting in managed solutions for other things that are important but not core to your business's value proposition, things like managed databases and logs and auditing and object storage and containers and data lakes.

If you don't want to use the cloud services that actually make the cloud convenient to use, then yeah, I don't know why you'd use the cloud.

But you could also run, say, Kubernetes on EKS and Fargate and still have a relatively easy time porting your software elsewhere in the future. And the other cloud providers have their own versions of things like S3 and Lambda and RDS. It's never easy to port production software to another provider, but it's not like it's impossible. And it's also an extremely unlikely scenario. I'd love to see some statistics on how many companies actually move off of their cloud providers; it's got to be one of the stickiest businesses out there.

> To me it is antithetical to building a sustainable product. People just hoping their startup gets bought and then it is someone else's problem.

At this point, just about every Fortune 500 company is using AWS, Azure, or Google Cloud in some capacity. For most companies, building out your own infrastructure is not part of your value proposition. So why not just pay somebody else to do the undifferentiated heavy lifting of figuring out how to run code in a generic way?

Re: We reduced our server costs by moving away from AWS

#95
post #21

I'm glad to see more of these types of articles, but at the same time I'm a bit flabbergasted that this isn't obvious for so many people. These cloud providers are, by definition, charging you more than it would cost you to run it yourself. What you get in return is a guarantee of expertise and an ecosystem.

> These cloud providers are by definition, charging you more than it would cost you to run it yourself That's totally non-obvious and certainly false in most cases. Cloud providers have huge economies of scale, which certainly makes it less expensive to use cloud if you factor in all your costs related to running it yourself. This is like saying buying furniture is more expensive than making your own furniture becaus…

The furniture example is great. If I wanted to build an Ikea table from scratch, I could not do it for less than the $20 they charge, given the cost of materials available to me, and the fact that I can’t buy a cup of paint for $2.

Re: We reduced our server costs by moving away from AWS

#96

They don't mention at all what services they were using (other than slight mention of S3) which makes it very hard to respond to this. If you are running everything on EC2 then you are going to have a bad time (especially if you aren't using reserved instances). AWS (IMHO) shines with the various services they provide (S3, Lambda, CloudFront, API Gateway, SQS< SES, to name a few). AWS is a game of trying to reduce yo…

Yeah, you need to do calculation of what you are doing right now vs AWS. If you already have a mature team that is doing well optimising the environment, you have stable demand and no need to develop things rapidly then it is very likely that going cloud is poor choice. As to "cloud agnostic", don't believe this bullshit. In my opinion most projects fare much better by just letting go of this "cloud agnostic" and jus…

Cloud agnostic has its place if you have enterprise contract with cloud provider.

If you have 100s of projects cloud agnostic infra is good. If for example Amazon buys your competitor and now you get "new contract coming up".

That said I agree "most projects fare much better without" - a lot of people don't understand they are not in position where they would benefit from that.

Re: We reduced our server costs by moving away from AWS

#97

They don't mention at all what services they were using (other than slight mention of S3) which makes it very hard to respond to this. If you are running everything on EC2 then you are going to have a bad time (especially if you aren't using reserved instances). AWS (IMHO) shines with the various services they provide (S3, Lambda, CloudFront, API Gateway, SQS< SES, to name a few). AWS is a game of trying to reduce yo…

EC2 is vastly more cost efficient than using all of those managed services unless you only have tiny on-demand usage scenarios.

Re: We reduced our server costs by moving away from AWS

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, loooong time ago - to get your dedicated server might have taken a few hours to provision and the instant server access that AWS brought should not be discredited. At one point it took often days for a dedicated server to be set up. We also didn't have such nice provisioning tools. Now it just seems like cargo cult to use cloud providers as the only option. People just completely discount dedicated servers.

In most businesses I've worked in: developer costs >> infrastructure costs An AWS large server is around $500/year, which is about 1-2 developer hours (with taxes, overhead, etc) at the cost scales last time I priced this out. That's crazy expensive in the absolute, but if it saves a couple of hours, it makes sense. PaaS providers cost even more. I've gone with those in the past, since it basically eliminated dev-ops…

As the OP points out, the real AWS costs are in transit - not the server costs. Their app generates a TON of traffic.

Re: We reduced our server costs by moving away from AWS

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1-2 developer hours?! Anyone looking to hire an ML guy for 250-500$/hr flat fee, hourly rate, no taxes, no healthcare, cancel any time... get in touch! For that money I'll gladly bark like a dog, walk on all fours and fetch your slippers.

I have to mention, that what you described is not what ML guy is supposed to be doing.

Surely they mean to get training data for the robot;)

Re: We reduced our server costs by moving away from AWS

#100

They don't mention at all what services they were using (other than slight mention of S3) which makes it very hard to respond to this. If you are running everything on EC2 then you are going to have a bad time (especially if you aren't using reserved instances). AWS (IMHO) shines with the various services they provide (S3, Lambda, CloudFront, API Gateway, SQS< SES, to name a few). AWS is a game of trying to reduce yo…

EC2 is vastly more cost efficient than using all of those managed services unless you only have tiny on-demand usage scenarios.

Are you including the wages of the extra people to support building and managing such services?
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