Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#311

Post by jrm4 » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 3:43 PM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #63

jrm4 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real talk. As someone who was raised Catholic, I just sort of assumed that sexual repression was a by-product of strong religious beliefs, and now I'm both fascinated and dismayed to discover that religion is in no way a requirement for this. America has managed to reinstate sexual repression, and it's odd how there's no clear "source" for it beyond "habitual capitalism" or something like that.

religion is in no way a requirement for this What makes you say this? Roe was tossed aside by a largely reactionary Catholic bench[1]. State-level anti-choice, anti-LGBTQ, and anything else dealing with sexuality is largely pushed by Evangelicals or other fundamentalist Christian politicians. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Supreme_Co...

I now no longer believe it's a primary driver -- rather a reflection-slash-convenient reason for some underlying social force of repression.

Point is, repression can still exist and manifest without it. See e.g. "thirst traps."

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#312

Post by pasc1878 » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 3:44 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #42

"It also establishes a precedent, allowing private companies to set opaque, moralizing, and arbitrary censorship terms without oversight." Yes, this is done with other things as well. On one hand, I think that the free market would create payment processors willing to work with the groups rejected by others. On the other hand, it seems that many financial things are set by international organizations, which the proce…

You missed the reason that payment processers set these terms. It is not because they want to.

It is because there is a minority who think sex is dirty and only should be done in the family and they will take anyone who is even slightly helping sex workers to court. The only protection public companies would have is there was a law stopping these court actions but no lawmaker is going to do this as the same minority would attack them and the majority would see the company as helping sleaze and what that minority see as sin.

Note that any new payment processor would be hit in the same way.

The issue is that a minority can persuade the majority of things even if they are untrue or destructive.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#313

Post by aliqot » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 3:44 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #282

aliqot wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for the pair-bonding thing, it reads like it came out of a bible pamphlet. I just want you to know your reply with the bible pamphlet thing was really stupid. To address you directly: It's scientifically proven, check out Oxytocin and see about the pair-bonding facilitation it does. I'm not a dummy, but today you spoke to me like one. You won't always get someone to re-engage you, and that won't always be becaus…

I think you're replying to the wrong person.

giantg2 is a swell person, I wrongly maligned them in this comment thinking the quote they posted was their own words in a flippant context.

I wholeheartedly apologize to giantg2. However for the record, other guy above can beat it.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#314

Post by RajT88 » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 3:45 PM UTC

some_random wrote: post #194

chki wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't drug dealers claim to sell recreational tea products?

Why can't hitmen claim to be bespoke pest exterminators?

OK, so I don't know about the hitmen thing, but there's been plenty of news stories about "independent masseuses" and "incense", "bath salts", etc.

People do stuff like this. I too wonder how they get away with it for as long as they do.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#315

Post by imbnwa » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 3:45 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #138

Kiro wrote: post #66

Among Swedish feminists and the left, sex work is completely unacceptable and prostitution is pretty much equated with rape. Is this not true for other countries?

Swedish feminists make different arguments, based on the inevitably gendered nature of the work and the asymmetry of sex discrimination. They make feminist arguments. The US does not, because they wouldn't work. The average angry political American thinks that bigotry against men is at least as prevalent as bigotry against women, and thinks that institutions have conspired with each other to advance women ahead of me…

> Even American feminists think that there's no element of a woman's condition in the world that can't be equally applied to anyone who identifies as a woman. Very American, if the conditions of women are a state of mind that can be corrected or experienced based on how you identify, it's basically a "law of attraction." Women can think themselves out of (or into, if they have penises) the female condition. I'm pretty sure Kanye said something about the reason for slavery being that black people identified as slaves. It's that same sort of inversion of control and blaming the victim.

Wait, what? I follow that 'average angry political American' is all about 'equal means equal' regardless of gender, but the next statements aren't clear: the endorsement of trans sexual identity in American feminism is, in principle, related to Kanye's statement that black people identified as slaves because both cases are basically "mind over matter" takes? Am I understanding that correctly? And these are both forms of victim blaming?

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#316

Post by giantg2 » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

lelanthran wrote: post #184

giantg2 wrote: post #42

"It also establishes a precedent, allowing private companies to set opaque, moralizing, and arbitrary censorship terms without oversight." Yes, this is done with other things as well. On one hand, I think that the free market would create payment processors willing to work with the groups rejected by others. On the other hand, it seems that many financial things are set by international organizations, which the proce…

> "It also establishes a precedent, allowing private companies to set opaque, moralizing, and arbitrary censorship terms without oversight." > Yes, this is done with other things as well. Politics makes strange bedfellows. Complain that twitter or facebook is censoring things and you'll get told that the government should not be able to dictate to private companies who can or cannot be excluded. Allow private compani…

"Both the Right and the Left have a common interest in forcing private companies to not exclude certain people."

But they won't come together because it's good if I do it to you, but bad if you do it to me.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#317

Post by P0l83q4p1Hw3Ul » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

ethotool wrote: post #210

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What did you learn about E-pimps? What does history tell us?

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#318

Post by JustLurking2022 » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

While many people on here are glorifying the workers in certain 1st world countries, I doubt it's representative of most sex workers worldwide. There's a ton of coercion and exploitation, and most countries don't have the sort of social safety net that ensures it's actually a real choice. I would imagine that's why banks at large have generally steered away from the industry - if 90% of the business is super shady and exposes them to excess risk, it's not worth it to sort out the 10% that's not. If there were a processor targeting the industry, the fees would probably be through the roof to account for this. That's just the markets at work.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#319

Post by eric4smith » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

Ostracizing sex work has always been the case for thousands of years in every successful culture and religion.

In fact, cultures that allowed widespread open sex work have always failed. (No, Amsterdam’s red light district is not “widespread”).

Just because it’s 2022 does not mean things should automatically change. Even Onlyfans performers, strippers and pr0n stars are openly shunned or relegated to non “wifely” roles.

This is because there are super deep lizard brain biological reasons why cultures have always done this.

And it will still take a few more generations before no one bats an eye (25+ years).

Yes, it would be better if it were safe and legal. Would probably be better for it’s consumers and providers.

But in the end the biological imperative to “be fruitful and multiply”, which is deeper than many of us would like to admit - is going to always fight back.

Railing against this ostracism is like railing against the sky being blue.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#320

Post by reilly3000 » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

This is about financial institutions protecting themselves from regulators. Higher risk clients get higher rates or excluded- some just aren’t worth the risk. Different banks have different risk tolerance, and certainly that varies per locale as well. Rules that are locale-specific are hard to accommodate.

Crypto is a solution if you believe that crypto is regulator-proof. I’m inclined to not think it is. Sure, Monero, etc. As soon as “Terrorists” are using it, regulators will find a way to monitor, control, outlaw, or even break it. By any means necessary.

I see 3 approaches: - find a way to make locale-specific compliance easier for enterprises. Locale is hard with anon web traffic, and maybe other systems as well.

- make a national law for sex worker payment rights. Banks are good at complying with national laws. Our current political climate may not permit this.

- weaken the power and scope of US financial regulators. Certainly those affected by SWIFT sanctions would love to see it, I’m sure. Our current administration is very committed to keeping and enhancing its resources and reach.