Live data from Hacker News

Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

thewalrus.ca

251–260 of 511 posts

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#251
post #110

Why doesn't the argument "private companies can do whatever they want, so if you don't like being arbitrarily banned by the incumbents, then start your own bank and payment processor" apply here?

By way of answer, a cautionary tale: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_dollar_(private_curren...

My question was about a new bank that would deal in existing US dollars, not creating another new currency.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#252

Why doesn't the argument "private companies can do whatever they want, so if you don't like being arbitrarily banned by the incumbents, then start your own bank and payment processor" apply here?

They did 20 years ago. Going strong: CCBill.com

If that's good enough, then why is this a story?

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#253

There's a libertarian ethos that says anything between two consenting adults is the their business. I'm more and more skeptical not just of that principle but the self awareness of the people who purport to support it. I know that the choices I think are correct may not be - either for myself, for everyone or for any particular person. For that reason I don't think that anyone should run my life or that I should be t…

I think that is friends/family/social pressure is for. We don't forbid it, but people will look at you sideways if you drink beer at 9 am on a weekday.

> but people will look at you sideways if you drink beer at 9 am on a weekday.

This is interesting because it assumes everyone's day to day is exactly the same. When I worked 3rd shift, drinking beer at 9 am wasn't an issue to me because my 9 am wasn't the same as your 9 am. At that point, drinking beer at 9 pm would be odd because that was my morning. Also, my workweek was shifted so my weekend was Monday/Tuesday, so trying to fit everyone into one way of living is simply never going to work.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#254
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and it is a fact that cartel and authoritarian statist money laundering is intertwined with banking. See just about any story about Deutsche in the last decade. I've worked with sex-related sites before. And you're right that there are sleazy people in that industry. But it really isn't hard to distinguish, especially when you can see their payment stream. Without moralist obsessions with sex, nobody would care…

What's your point? Sans morals, nobody would care murder either.

If you kill someone I care about, I will want to see you punished. So many people agree with this that we have laws saying you can't kill people or else you'll be punished. But if you pay someone to have sex with them, so what? If both parties consent to everything, then who is harmed? Some people get mad because they think it's immoral, but not everyone.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#255

Why doesn't the argument "private companies can do whatever they want, so if you don't like being arbitrarily banned by the incumbents, then start your own bank and payment processor" apply here?

Banks work in a network of other banks. If you're the "sex worker bank" you yourself can get shut down

Isn't this true of the Internet too? If no ISPs are willing to host you, aren't you effectively shut down?

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cake-eating-and-having exercise. To progressives: "See how progressive we are, not criminalizing sex work!" To conservatives: "See how conservative we are, endangering sex workers and making life hard for them!"

I don't think conservatives are attempting to endanger sex workers - they believe sex work is fundamentally risky and leads to abuse. There is no safe way to do sex work that doesn't result in problems. Therefore they believe it should be discouraged and made illegal, the same way many progressives believe firearms should be illegal since they are dangerous. Tribal groups are alive and well, and even if you dislike y…

I thought they believed sex work is fundamentally sinful and that's why it should be banned. I guess we talked to different conservatives.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#257
post #174

Why doesn't the argument "private companies can do whatever they want, so if you don't like being arbitrarily banned by the incumbents, then start your own bank and payment processor" apply here?

Obviously it depends on whether people like the activity being banned or not?

This is basically what I was thinking. The argument is never actually sound, but people only acknowledge that when it's something they like that gets banned, instead pretending that it is a good argument when something they don't like gets banned.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#258
post #3

Crypto is an option here. Seems like a pretty good fit for what the sex workers need.

An immutable record of who paid what sex workers sounds like it has the potential for machine learning to map who did what and with whom. Could this information be abused?

There are cryptocurrencies besides Bitcoin. Monero seems like an appropriate choice for this use case.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#259

> Despite a user base of over 130 million, OnlyFans has failed to attract venture capital I don't get why that's a problem? They already built their platform, it works, they're the gold standard and they have a massive paying userbase! Why do they need VC money? Why would you want to dilute your stock rather than just build with your already existing, sizeable revenue stream?

It would have been useful early to pay for hosting. OF may not exist today if not for the great de-porning of Tumblr that happened about a year after they started as a business.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#260
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And civilized society routinely sets a floor for that “work or starve” dynamic, ensuring that there isn’t a race to the bottom and desperate people aren’t forced to take certain kinds of jobs. That’s because we understand that the legality of certain kinds of jobs creates social pressure on people in tough circumstances to do those jobs. Such regulation inherently requires society to make decisions about what sort of…

> And civilized society routinely sets a floor for that “work or starve” dynamic, ensuring that there isn’t a race to the bottom and desperate people aren’t forced to take certain kinds of jobs. No, not certain kinds of jobs, that's absolutely the wrong way to think about it. People shouldn't be forced into certain kind of working conditions . That's an entirely different perspective. If impersonal sex doesn't bother…

You overlook the inherently collective nature of labor regulation. Labor regulation seeks to prevent individual choices from creating market-wide pressures and a societal race to the bottom. It doesn't matter if being asked to pitch in on weekends without extra pay "doesn't bother you." We ban you from even voluntarily agreeing to do that because we don't want to be pressured to do that too. Individual choices are restricted to create a floor for everyone.

From that perspective, any difference between "type of work" and "working conditions" is wholly artificial. People don't want to be pressured to work on weekends, they don't want to be pressured to do sex work, etc., so we ban those things to eliminate those pressures.

Post reply on HN