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Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

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Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#231

Post by marcus_holmes »

pjc50 wrote: post #186
a-user-you-like wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, except that you get more of what you subsidize. Besides being immoral, it’s destructive to society.

My point is that the "war on drugs" approach is pretty ineffective while at the same time inflicting significant collateral damage. It already is underground, and it already is almost illegal in most jurisdictions. (Actually criminalizing the exchange of valuable consideration for sex hits the problem that things that look suspiciously like it are endemic in hetero dating and "giving money to your tinder date for a t…

Just say you're filming a porno and in most of the western world it suddenly becomes legal.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#232

Post by Elinvynia »

aliqot wrote: post #151
confidantlake wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teaching safe sex is what prevents disease and unwanted children, not moralizing about sex. There are plenty of well adjusted people who are either in open relationships or have no desire to be in relationships. Being kind and treating people with respect is what strengthens families.

- A condom won't prevent diseases or unwanted children. - Open relationships do not strengthen "families".

There is a 100% guaranteed way to prevent an unwanted child, in half of the US states at the very least.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#233

Post by naasking »

rayiner wrote: post #96
NoraCodes wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We also know that the vast majority of people who work in the "industry" are either coerced by others or forced into it by life circumstances. Most people are forced into work by life circumstances. That's how society operates: work or starve. Sex trafficking is a genuine issue, but it's not at all the majority of the industry. I don't see what makes consensual sex work uniquely coercive or evil when compared to ot…

And civilized society routinely sets a floor for that “work or starve” dynamic, ensuring that there isn’t a race to the bottom and desperate people aren’t forced to take certain kinds of jobs. That’s because we understand that the legality of certain kinds of jobs creates social pressure on people in tough circumstances to do those jobs. Such regulation inherently requires society to make decisions about what sort of…

> And civilized society routinely sets a floor for that “work or starve” dynamic, ensuring that there isn’t a race to the bottom and desperate people aren’t forced to take certain kinds of jobs.

No, not certain kinds of jobs, that's absolutely the wrong way to think about it. People shouldn't be forced into certain kind of working conditions. That's an entirely different perspective. If impersonal sex doesn't bother you, sex work is a perfectly legitimate form of labour as long as the working conditions are just as safe and regulated as any other job they could choose.

> And as to your own view, do you think unemployment offices should tell women to look for jobs in sex work before they can get unemployment benefits? After all it’s just another job right?

The notion that unemployment benefits should be contingent on anything is a notion you've carried into this, but even if we go with it, if a woman could not stand the thought of being a sanitation worker, then she has every right to reject that kind of job. The same argument applies to sex work.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#234

Post by kodah »

josephcsible wrote: post #107

Why doesn't the argument "private companies can do whatever they want, so if you don't like being arbitrarily banned by the incumbents, then start your own bank and payment processor" apply here?

It's a trash argument in the first place, for starters. The people who support sex workers having an actual, functioning, non-predatory ecosystem don't suddenly flip to "freedom of speech sucks" when pressed.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#235

Post by circlefavshape »

jrm4 wrote: post #27
LatteLazy wrote: post #13

We're really seeing a counterrevolution around sex and sexuality. From Row vs Wade to crackdowns on pornography to this, America is getting back to its puritanical roots...

Real talk. As someone who was raised Catholic, I just sort of assumed that sexual repression was a by-product of strong religious beliefs, and now I'm both fascinated and dismayed to discover that religion is in no way a requirement for this. America has managed to reinstate sexual repression, and it's odd how there's no clear "source" for it beyond "habitual capitalism" or something like that.

It'd be really interesting to study sexual repression in chimps or bonobos. Might have some underlying game-theoretic roots, and not actually be unique to humans

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#236

Post by ectopod »

NoraCodes wrote: post #125
rayiner wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And civilized society routinely sets a floor for that “work or starve” dynamic, ensuring that there isn’t a race to the bottom and desperate people aren’t forced to take certain kinds of jobs. That’s because we understand that the legality of certain kinds of jobs creates social pressure on people in tough circumstances to do those jobs. Such regulation inherently requires society to make decisions about what sort of…

I'm a woman, and a socialist, so no, I don't think anyone should be forced into sex work. I don't think anyone should be forced into any kind of work.

This is begging the question. It is plainly worse to be forced into some kinds of work (e.g. serving on Russia's front line) than others (e.g. picking apples).

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#237

Post by aliqot »

teolandon wrote: post #172
aliqot wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- A condom won't prevent diseases or unwanted children. - Open relationships do not strengthen "families".

The fact that you believe that casual sex affects pair bonding ability at the chemical level, but you don't believe that condoms prevent the spread of STIs and pregnancies is concerning.

Not all STD's need to contact a mucous membrane to infect

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#238

Post by [deleted] »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #12
dtx1 wrote: post #4

Quoted post unavailable.

Again with the denigrating of sex work. It's a pervasive and ancient part of human society, but it should not be studied, because? We study bookmaking and banking and families and art, but not this because, it's naughty? it's taboo? it makes some uncomfortable? All that is a clear sign to me, that we need more such scholars.

[deleted]

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#239

Post by 666lumberjack »

implements wrote: post #152
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again with the denigrating of sex work. It's a pervasive and ancient part of human society, but it should not be studied, because? We study bookmaking and banking and families and art, but not this because, it's naughty? it's taboo? it makes some uncomfortable? All that is a clear sign to me, that we need more such scholars.

It should be denigrated - it’s an abuse of another human being that’s often considered a form of modern slavery. Have a read of this from an actual day-to-day UK prostitute: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4638679-reasons-n... NB: Being against sex work isn’t being against sex workers. Edit: You know, I was going to moan about the downvotes - but I think I’ll leave it as when ultimately [flagged] it’ll be…

One unsubstantiated anecdote from one person doing one kind of sex work is enough to completely condemn it? I could just as easily point to someone like Aella_girl who is a vocal proponent of escorting and sex work.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#240

Post by rtkwe »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #231
pjc50 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that the "war on drugs" approach is pretty ineffective while at the same time inflicting significant collateral damage. It already is underground, and it already is almost illegal in most jurisdictions. (Actually criminalizing the exchange of valuable consideration for sex hits the problem that things that look suspiciously like it are endemic in hetero dating and "giving money to your tinder date for a t…

Just say you're filming a porno and in most of the western world it suddenly becomes legal.

There's a lot of paperwork you have to keep around that IIRC dealing with actor's ages and everything.
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