Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#51

Post by izacus » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:27 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #42

"It also establishes a precedent, allowing private companies to set opaque, moralizing, and arbitrary censorship terms without oversight." Yes, this is done with other things as well. On one hand, I think that the free market would create payment processors willing to work with the groups rejected by others. On the other hand, it seems that many financial things are set by international organizations, which the proce…

Corporate consolidation made sure that a lot of important markets aren't free anymore. Vertical integration between corporations made that even worse - e.g. if Visa won't process your payments, people with Apple phones won't be able to pay either. These kind of things - there's too little competition across many markets so big players just itegrate with themselves and newcomers simply can't compete due to integration and network effects.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#52

Post by duxup » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:28 PM UTC

horsestaple wrote: post #39

Quoted post unavailable.

Yeah I'm a bit curious about this too.

I recall some studies showing even just folks at strip clubs enduring a lot of emotional pain and etc. Is it the job, is it the folks who take those jobs? I don't know but I'm skeptical about "It's simply a job." kind of blanket deceleration.

Human sexuality is hardly like typing on a keyboard or etc... I don't buy into just declaring it like any other job. Granted I don't care to stigmatize those folks either, but that statement seems somewhat dangerous / off the mark.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#53

Post by jmopp » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:28 PM UTC

zivkovicp wrote: post #36

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again with the denigrating of sex work. It's a pervasive and ancient part of human society, but it should not be studied, because? We study bookmaking and banking and families and art, but not this because, it's naughty? it's taboo? it makes some uncomfortable? All that is a clear sign to me, that we need more such scholars.

I would imagine it's because classic family values are incompatible with "hookup culture" and unfettered access to sex for money, and it seems that society is sitting on the fence as to which they want for the long term. Of course I could be totally wrong.

Sex work has been around forever, as has hookup culture. There just happen to be now better alternatives than putting the female party in a Magdalene laundry until she gives birth.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#54

Post by fknorangesite » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:28 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #9

All this time, and technology hasn't solved this issue? Wasn't bitcoin supposed to be applicable here - anonymous transactions? Wasn't the internet supposed to enable humans to interact at will without censorship?

> Wasn't bitcoin supposed to be applicable here

Accepting bitcoin is all well and good, but it doesn't help you much if your customers aren't able/willing to pay with it.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#55

Post by mkl95 » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:28 PM UTC

> Excessive chargebacks plague many industries: auctions, online gaming, event ticket sales, multilevel marketing, and more. But when your business is regarded as a reputational liability—as porn is—payment processors are quick to blacklist.

It sounds like a combination of tangible and intangible stuff. There are cultural aspects behind it but also legit financial concerns.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#56

Post by hackeraccount » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:28 PM UTC

There's a libertarian ethos that says anything between two consenting adults is the their business. I'm more and more skeptical not just of that principle but the self awareness of the people who purport to support it.

I know that the choices I think are correct may not be - either for myself, for everyone or for any particular person. For that reason I don't think that anyone should run my life or that I should be trying to run other people's; excepting crossing the bright line of consent.

I'm beginning to wonder though if there isn't some space short of stopping a person from doing something - even if just to stand up and say - "What you're doing is crazy. Why would you do that to yourself? Why would you let someone do that to you? Why would you do that to another person?"

If you talk to people who would ask those questions though the issue is that anyone who's willing to say something is also unable to accept that that's all they can do. They'll push whatever isn't right for them to the other side of the bright line.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#57

Post by micromacrofoot » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:30 PM UTC

horsestaple wrote: post #39

Quoted post unavailable.

Legitimizing the industry helps make cases of coercion more obvious, as people gain more legitimate means to report things without self-incrimination.

Physical laborers rent out their bodies in a way that often causes permanent damage. It's literally degrading their bodies. Some construction workers live with chronic pain for their entire lives.

There's a psychological component as well, which is more vulnerable in sex work, but there are no shortage of people who also end up with psychological damage from their jobs outside of sex work either. Another commenter pointed out military work — being ordered to kill results in absurd levels of trauma, but it's a completely legitimate career path in the eyes of most societies. Why is that?

I find it fairly hard to distinguish sex work from other work. There's a different balance of upsides and downsides, but you can find similar impacts in other legitimized lines of work.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#58

Post by UncleMeat » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:30 PM UTC

dtx1 wrote: post #16

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again with the denigrating of sex work. It's a pervasive and ancient part of human society, but it should not be studied, because? We study bookmaking and banking and families and art, but not this because, it's naughty? it's taboo? it makes some uncomfortable? All that is a clear sign to me, that we need more such scholars.

Quoted post unavailable.

Pornography is a constant part of human culture. "Pornography studies" is not meaningfully different from "music studies" or whatever. There is a rich history of both the thing itself and society's interaction with the thing that can be mined for insight and understanding.

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#59

Post by lazide » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:32 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #40

Overtonwindow wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then cash becomes a storage issue. The same way marijuana shops are blocked from depositing their cash into banks, cash with sex workers becomes a problem. How to get it into the banking system without drawing the attention of the police? Even worse, try paying bills with cash. If you'll pardon me, I think cash deposite below $1,000 should be none of the government's business without a valid, specific warrant. If…

You have a cookie baking or massage business that covers enough to pay a modest mortgage and car. The rest you pay in cash. You give family members down payments to buy property or leases for you.

Aka money laundering (according to the feds)

Re: Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet letter?

#60

Post by nend » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:32 PM UTC

horsestaple wrote: post #39

Quoted post unavailable.

Something can be both "simply a job" and different than most jobs. The argument is that sex work isn't inherently immoral, so deserves to be supported by our financial infrastructure. It's "simply a job" in the sense that it deserves legitimacy, not that it's exactly like most other jobs.

Institutional support instead of prosecution also comes with the benefit of at least partially undermining the black market of the work, and the additional crimes that are frequently associated with sex work.