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Apple Has Reportedly Rejected TSMC's Chip Price Hike of 6%

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Re: Apple Has Reportedly Rejected TSMC's Chip Price Hike of 6%

#31

Post by Octoth0rpe »

drexlspivey wrote: post #24
Octoth0rpe wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article outlined at least one option that Apple has: stay on the 5nm node for a bit longer. It doesn't seem impossible at all that TSMC would cave/agree to only a 2-3% hike in 6 months. While a greater lead is I'm sure welcome, it's not like Apple isn't _extremely_ well positioned in every market they operate in, even on 5nm.

“N3 technology will offer up to 70% logic density gain, up to 15% speed improvement at the same power and up to 30% power reduction at the same speed as compared with N5 technology” Kinda crazy to not pay 6% for these gains but that’s just me!

Well, there are lots of weasel words in there, as well as leaving out the error rate.

Re: Apple Has Reportedly Rejected TSMC's Chip Price Hike of 6%

#32

Post by scarface74 »

elif wrote: post #16
drexlspivey wrote: post #10

What other options does Apple have? Intel doesn’t manufacture ARM chips (yet) and Samsung is 1+ process nodes behind the upcoming TSMC N3E

I don't think you even need a viable alternative to make this kind of threat. That's why we used to enforce antitrust laws.

So who would you be breaking up in this case and how do you “enforce anti-trust” laws on a Taiwanese company?

How would you break up Apple in this case? They can’t sell iPhones, iPads, Macs, Watches, monitors (their newest monitor has the same processor as the iPhone 11) and AppleTVs?

Would you break Apple up so each line of iPhones have to be a separate company?

Re: Apple Has Reportedly Rejected TSMC's Chip Price Hike of 6%

#33

Post by sofixa »

robin_reala wrote: post #13
alphabetting wrote: post #7

TSMC charging 6% more for the 3nm process seems reasonable. Article notes Apple accounts for 25% of their revenue and says this gives them leverage over TSMC but aren't they the only 3nm player in town?

Yep, but TSMC don’t manufacture the main lithography machines: that’s typically solely or at least collaboratively from ASML in the Netherlands. So if Apple really wanted to, they could move gradually away. And given their volumes, this is leverage.

That would probably take years to set up, and considering Apple outsource manufacturing in general (Foxconn for assembly, Samsung for screens, TSMC for chips) it wouldn't necessarily fit their modus operandi.

On the other hand they have more money than they could possibly spend, so insourcing everything for vertical integration isn't out of reach.

Re: Apple Has Reportedly Rejected TSMC's Chip Price Hike of 6%

#34

Post by epberry »

atonse wrote: post #6

I'd love to be a fly on the wall during these negotiations. Just to see what the heck they even talk about, what information each party comes armed with, and what kinds of concessions get offered. I mean it isn't just a "we'll lower this" I bet there's lots of juicy confidential future roadmap stuff, things like "Ok we'll help you invest in this _____ tech and machinery but you have to knock off half a cent" or who k…

Yeah absolutely. Another huge thing I got some window into at Qualcomm is technical validation. So Apple is going to be looking for proof that the chips deliver and TSMC is going to be pushing back against high expectations on that front.

Re: Apple Has Reportedly Rejected TSMC's Chip Price Hike of 6%

#35

Post by necovek »

drexlspivey wrote: post #24
Octoth0rpe wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article outlined at least one option that Apple has: stay on the 5nm node for a bit longer. It doesn't seem impossible at all that TSMC would cave/agree to only a 2-3% hike in 6 months. While a greater lead is I'm sure welcome, it's not like Apple isn't _extremely_ well positioned in every market they operate in, even on 5nm.

“N3 technology will offer up to 70% logic density gain, up to 15% speed improvement at the same power and up to 30% power reduction at the same speed as compared with N5 technology” Kinda crazy to not pay 6% for these gains but that’s just me!

Only if your customers are willing to pay that much.

While Apple chips are highly sought after in the West, that's still a minor part of the worldwide market altogether (and while I'd be happy to go back to M1 Max, I couldn't care less for their glossy displays, shallow keyboards and sharp edges — not to mention incomplete Linux support).

Re: Apple Has Reportedly Rejected TSMC's Chip Price Hike of 6%

#37

Post by boringg »

6% rate hike is pretty high especially as I've read recently a lot of the inflation costs have actually gone back into corporate profits instead of inflated products costs / labor costs. Add in high cost of USD on global markets.

Interesting scenario with both parties squaring off.

Re: Apple Has Reportedly Rejected TSMC's Chip Price Hike of 6%

#38

Post by [deleted] »

drexlspivey wrote: post #24
Octoth0rpe wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article outlined at least one option that Apple has: stay on the 5nm node for a bit longer. It doesn't seem impossible at all that TSMC would cave/agree to only a 2-3% hike in 6 months. While a greater lead is I'm sure welcome, it's not like Apple isn't _extremely_ well positioned in every market they operate in, even on 5nm.

“N3 technology will offer up to 70% logic density gain, up to 15% speed improvement at the same power and up to 30% power reduction at the same speed as compared with N5 technology” Kinda crazy to not pay 6% for these gains but that’s just me!

[deleted]

Re: Apple Has Reportedly Rejected TSMC's Chip Price Hike of 6%

#39

Post by GekkePrutser »

necovek wrote: post #35
drexlspivey wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“N3 technology will offer up to 70% logic density gain, up to 15% speed improvement at the same power and up to 30% power reduction at the same speed as compared with N5 technology” Kinda crazy to not pay 6% for these gains but that’s just me!

Only if your customers are willing to pay that much. While Apple chips are highly sought after in the West, that's still a minor part of the worldwide market altogether (and while I'd be happy to go back to M1 Max, I couldn't care less for their glossy displays, shallow keyboards and sharp edges — not to mention incomplete Linux support).

Same here. My Thinkpad doesn't look as cool but it's so much better to work on. Amazing keyboard, matte screen that even has touch, no sharp edges. And it has PORTS!

Apple solved these issues somewhat with the new MBP but the keyboard and screen still sucks for me. Their new SoCs are great though.

Re: Apple Has Reportedly Rejected TSMC's Chip Price Hike of 6%

#40

Post by oefrha »

drexlspivey wrote: post #24
Octoth0rpe wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article outlined at least one option that Apple has: stay on the 5nm node for a bit longer. It doesn't seem impossible at all that TSMC would cave/agree to only a 2-3% hike in 6 months. While a greater lead is I'm sure welcome, it's not like Apple isn't _extremely_ well positioned in every market they operate in, even on 5nm.

“N3 technology will offer up to 70% logic density gain, up to 15% speed improvement at the same power and up to 30% power reduction at the same speed as compared with N5 technology” Kinda crazy to not pay 6% for these gains but that’s just me!

Kinda crazy to not pay up to 6% for these up to gains.
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