Open Source PC That Fits in Your Pocket • Hacker News Board

Re: Open Source PC That Fits in Your Pocket

#171

Post by PopePompus » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:00 PM UTC

thereddaikon wrote: post #165

yosamino wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It's not a fantasy. The Nokia N900 was amazing . It functioned as a phone with a touchscreen to deliver the experience that had now become the dominant one. But also, by sliding up the screen, it had a fully featured keyboard, and essentially transmogrified into a "pc that fits into your pocket". So you could with a one handed push go from the touchscreen-only experience back to edit documents by using a combinat…

having a keyboard does not a PC make. The N900 was great to type on by cellphone standards but it was still a cell phone. Maemo is not a PC OS. It did not do what a PC did.

You could easily (and I did) put a full Debian user space on the N900, and maintain all the cell phone functionality. It offered a pretty complete Linux experience.

Re: Open Source PC That Fits in Your Pocket

#172

Post by Grumbledour » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:00 PM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #164

ElCheapo wrote: post #46

Can we stop with this absolute fantasy about PCs that "fit in your pocket"? The medium is the message, the form is the functionality. Smartphones have been "pocketable PCs" for more than a decade already, but are dumbed down because their inputs and outputs are limited. You can't type effectively, your screen is small, your battery is limited. Would you want a command line interface on your Smart TV using only a remo…

The HP Palmtop (200LX for life) was an entire 80186 PC with CGA graphics that fit in a pocket. In 2000. We can certainly do better than that now if we want to.

Maybe we can't? I have been wondering about that for quite some time now.

We have been talking about ubiquitous computing for a long time, but instead of doing that, it seems we have settled on using smartphones for everything, retiring specialized or underpowered devices in their favor, even if they are just 60% as good as their predecessors.

When a company tries to build something in this niche, it seems we need as much power as possible to make it potentially as mass appealing as possible, which in turn means tradeoffs in many other areas (size, heat, battery life, software etc.) that make it unappealing to most but a small minority.

Now, it would seem easy to create a specialized device by putting some constraints on it, right? Make a computer optimized for writers! Make one optimized for day planing! Make one that is not good for playing video or games but great for spreadsheets etc. These devices could excel at their given niche and give us back advantages like weeks long battery life or incredible small size etc. But it seems, no one is willing to work with these constraints. Of course, also no one seems to be capable to create custom software, which I guess these devices would also need to be good at what they were supposed to do.

Sometimes you find these things in small, specialized markets, but even then they always seem to be not really much better or even worse than what we had in the 90s. I am not sure if it is because of market dynamics or lack of vision, but all we ever seem to get are compromises.

Re: Open Source PC That Fits in Your Pocket

#173

Post by Kajayacht » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:01 PM UTC

kratom_sandwich wrote: post #132

Let me add this to my list - Has any of these made it ever into the hands of customers? I believe the only device that actually came out is the Cosmo Communicator ( https://www.www3.planetcom.co.uk/cosmo-communicator ) There's also Lisperati1000 - https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberDeck/comments/lbu4di/my_shiny_... Devterm - https://www.clockworkpi.com/devterm Popcorn Pocket - https://pocket.popcorncomputer.com/ Teenyserv…

There's the OpenPandora (https://www.openpandora.org/) that did make it into hands of customers.

If you look around Youtube and such, everyone seemed highly satisfied with it, but as a owner myself, it kinda sucked.

By the time it came out, it was underpowered, it never was able to run any decent web browser at an acceptable level. It's focus was gaming and emulation, but even then it wasn't any better than a modded PSP (I would say in terms of software, it was worse). My Pandora had numerous manufacturing defects and the way to resolve it was "post in the user forums" where people would reply "Don't worry about it, it's a purely open-sourced handheld! You could just 3D print a new L button!"

And what pissed me off to no end, people would overclock the CPU over 40% to get stuff to run at acceptable speeds, and then in the same breath say that "it's amazing, 10 hour battery!" Not if you overclock the thing.

I still get excited when I see these new ultra-portable computers, but then I remember the Pandora and quickly tell myself not to waste my money.

Re: Open Source PC That Fits in Your Pocket

#174

Post by selfhoster11 » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:19 PM UTC

ElCheapo wrote: post #107

selfhoster11 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one, a PC on a stick is much lighter than a Macintosh 512k. And it has no CRT or hard drive that can be smashed during transport. You can slip it into a work backpack or briefcase - try doing that with the Macintosh. You do have to bring your own peripherals, but being able to move your computer around previously set-up work points is already an improvement from not being able to carry it at all, or carrying arou…

I used the Machintosh example because the use case you're talking about is a completely old fashioned way of intending "portable computing". Portable computing currently means being able to take your device out of your pocket and being able to use it on the go. The Intel stick certainly has its uses, but are unrelated from the topic at hand and strikes me as just an excuse to share something you do that you think is…

There's no reason the MNT Reform cannot be used both on the go and in a docking station.

The parent likes to use an "old fashioned" (I disagree with that judgement, but fine) paradigm of portability, so what? Does that make it a less valid choice? "Portable" is a generic term that's not reserved for discussions of any specific kind of portability, so why not coin/use a specific term for "fits in your pocket and is usable on the train" if you need one, rather than silently assume?

Re: Open Source PC That Fits in Your Pocket

#175

Post by mrlemke » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:19 PM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #164

ElCheapo wrote: post #46

Can we stop with this absolute fantasy about PCs that "fit in your pocket"? The medium is the message, the form is the functionality. Smartphones have been "pocketable PCs" for more than a decade already, but are dumbed down because their inputs and outputs are limited. You can't type effectively, your screen is small, your battery is limited. Would you want a command line interface on your Smart TV using only a remo…

The HP Palmtop (200LX for life) was an entire 80186 PC with CGA graphics that fit in a pocket. In 2000. We can certainly do better than that now if we want to.

I just want a 200LX with a bit more RAM, wifi, and a new-ish CPU. As far as I'm concerned, it could run on a Raspberry 0 W. I haven't seen anything new with that Palmtop style of keyboard. It needs both good keys and a decent layout, but everything new I've seen seems to compromise on both.

Re: Open Source PC That Fits in Your Pocket

#176

Post by rcarmo » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:20 PM UTC

kratom_sandwich wrote: post #132

Let me add this to my list - Has any of these made it ever into the hands of customers? I believe the only device that actually came out is the Cosmo Communicator ( https://www.www3.planetcom.co.uk/cosmo-communicator ) There's also Lisperati1000 - https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberDeck/comments/lbu4di/my_shiny_... Devterm - https://www.clockworkpi.com/devterm Popcorn Pocket - https://pocket.popcorncomputer.com/ Teenyserv…

I've been hoping that the Lisperati becomes a real product soon. At least in kit form, since I'd rather have some of the kinks of sourcing and packing stuff into the case sorted for me.

Re: Open Source PC That Fits in Your Pocket

#177

Post by selfhoster11 » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:22 PM UTC

ElCheapo wrote: post #124

squarefoot wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Smartphones have been "pocketable PCs" for more than a decade already, but are dumbed down because their inputs and outputs are limited. I wish it was only about the i/o: pocket Bluetooth keyboards, mice and other i/o devices would be just a few bucks away. No, the problem is rather that phones/tablets use crippled dumbed down and tight closed operating systems that offer only a small fraction of the power a real c…

What is stopping you from adapting AOSP to have better keyboard integration? Android has been modified before to adapt to folding screens, tablets and multiple screens.

Locked bootloaders, for one. Even if you can unlock it, there's a disincentive to do so thanks to losing the SafetyNet status - which will brick a whole range of apps that refuse to run if it's not intact.

Re: Open Source PC That Fits in Your Pocket

#178

Post by selfhoster11 » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:24 PM UTC

ElCheapo wrote: post #129

tmikaeld wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key is the keyboard is integrated and foldable, it's the convenience and portability that is key. With an android (with two exceptions), you have to have two separate pieces, something to put them on and then pair and charge both parts. In short: You can pull it out of your pocket anywhere, type something with both thumbs on a full keyboard, then fold it down again in seconds. There are Android phones with a full…

Your reply is baffling. First you say that with "android" (as if they made hardware) you can't have an integrated keyboard. Then you say that Android phones with a full integrated keyboard actually exist. But then you move the goalpost saying that they aren't open source/hardware. Which is false, by the way, since this device [ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/pro1 ] runs LineageOS, and phones with completely free…

Barely any good Android phones with a QWERTY keyboard exist these days.

Re: Open Source PC That Fits in Your Pocket

#179

Post by selfhoster11 » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:26 PM UTC

thereddaikon wrote: post #165

yosamino wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It's not a fantasy. The Nokia N900 was amazing . It functioned as a phone with a touchscreen to deliver the experience that had now become the dominant one. But also, by sliding up the screen, it had a fully featured keyboard, and essentially transmogrified into a "pc that fits into your pocket". So you could with a one handed push go from the touchscreen-only experience back to edit documents by using a combinat…

having a keyboard does not a PC make. The N900 was great to type on by cellphone standards but it was still a cell phone. Maemo is not a PC OS. It did not do what a PC did.

N900 was a great deal closer to a PC OS than any release of Android I've seen past Android 2.x. It even has X11 and a built in, honest-to-goodness version of apt! You can't say that about many phones these days.

I'm almost sure that with enough swearing and elbow grease I could replace the entire GUI with something that I can write myself to be tailor-made to my needs. Doing anything even close to this for Android seems like a daunting task.

Re: Open Source PC That Fits in Your Pocket

#180

Post by salmo » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 1:29 PM UTC

I keep looking at similar devices. What I really want is a small lap top machine (but not necessarily a clamshell laptop) that I can keep by my couch.

My goal is to be able to write software when an idea pops in my head or ssh into my home gear. I just want an xterm w/ vim and a browser to look up docs.

I have a old 2012 HP Elite (?) laptop with a permanent powercord (battery died long ago) for this now, but it’s massive and overkill. Out of my nerdiness, I’d like non-intel, but not required. Just something that can run Debian or Arch. I’d love FreeBSD, but never had a good portable experience with it.

Has anyone used a device this way and enjoyed it? I guess I’m weird that I want small and ergonomic, but not really “portable” in the traditional sense.