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Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

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Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#151

Post by 4ggr0 »

captainmuon wrote: post #123
rendall wrote: post #67

Everyone seems to know it was Russia and is just casting out ideas to find a plausible motivation. I find that completely baffling. For opportunity, consider that while setting up the pipeline needs a weird high-pressure residence and special training, blowing it up takes a fishing boat, scuba gear and underwater explosives. The equipment and training is cheap and available. So, those with opportunity is almost anyon…

I just hope it wasn't the US. That would be a devastating breach of trust for Germany and would backfire badly if it came out. I'm rooting for the Danish anarchists. You basically just need underwater explosives and a boat. You hang the explosives on a long rope, throw it over board like an anchor, and drag it into the pipeline. When you hit the pipeline, you detonate the explosives.

> devastating breach of trust for Germany

I think that already happened in at least one other instance. [0]

[0] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spie...

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#152

Post by sofixa »

saiya-jin wrote: post #91
rendall wrote: post #67

Everyone seems to know it was Russia and is just casting out ideas to find a plausible motivation. I find that completely baffling. For opportunity, consider that while setting up the pipeline needs a weird high-pressure residence and special training, blowing it up takes a fishing boat, scuba gear and underwater explosives. The equipment and training is cheap and available. So, those with opportunity is almost anyon…

You realize that that gas didn't evaporate but will be eventually sold to somebody else. Even if for lower prices. Russia doesn't have money issue right now, rather political/military one. The guy on top with his close circle has few hundreds billions stashed all around the world, he doesn't desperately need to get more immediately. Your arguments are valid but what baffles me in this topic is why folks try so hard t…

> You realize that that gas didn't evaporate but will be eventually sold to somebody else

They don't have the infrastructure for that, and if they stop extraction it will be complicated and expensive to restart it later. So they're just burning it:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-62652133

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#153

Post by diimdeep »

WHA8m wrote: post #149

I like this thread. A bunch of possibly above average intelligent people going all in on discussing why and how such an attack was done. Very entertaining to read. What struck me, was that a few of you seriously think about the US as a contender for this attack. Does anyone has an recent example of the US being that hostile to friend nations?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2004/02/27/r...

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#154

Post by apexalpha »

WHA8m wrote: post #149

I like this thread. A bunch of possibly above average intelligent people going all in on discussing why and how such an attack was done. Very entertaining to read. What struck me, was that a few of you seriously think about the US as a contender for this attack. Does anyone has an recent example of the US being that hostile to friend nations?

>What struck me, was that a few of you think about the US as a serious contender for this attack. Does anyone has an recent example of the US being that hostile to friend nations?

This narative was a little too quick, too widespread and too concise if you ask me. A lot of new-ish accounts quickly posted this version on all different English social media but I've yet to see it on Dutch, Belgian or French social media.

It reeks if you ask me.

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#155

Post by dividedbyzero »

ktfelt wrote: post #140
piaste wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had your exact same reaction, except with the US at the top of the suspects list (or non-governmental agents whose interests align with the US, of which there are plenty). The #1 reason I'm still leaning Russia nevertheless is because of an outside factor: Russia isn't screaming bloody murder about it . If 3/4th of their pipelines had gone up and nobody in the Russian government was involved, Lavrov would already b…

I noticed that the Western press is quiet, too. Normally they'd scream "terrorist attack" on every front page. Now they only cite Ukraine claiming a Russian terror attack or say nothing. If a Canadian pipe was blown up, the headlines would be different.

I think reactions would be way different if it had been virtually any other pipeline or similar infrastructure. The Nord Streams are quite special in that everyone in the West but Germany would very strongly like them gone and even Germany isn't too thrilled about the liability they've become. If this had been an attack on important transmission lines, there would be much much larger outcry.

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#156

Post by rendall »

sydd wrote: post #146
piaste wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had your exact same reaction, except with the US at the top of the suspects list (or non-governmental agents whose interests align with the US, of which there are plenty). The #1 reason I'm still leaning Russia nevertheless is because of an outside factor: Russia isn't screaming bloody murder about it . If 3/4th of their pipelines had gone up and nobody in the Russian government was involved, Lavrov would already b…

Some more indirect evidence that it was Russia: https://twitter.com/inteldoge/status/1573450988744331274?s=4...

How is the presence of a submarine detection helicopter evidence that it was Russia?

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#157

Post by WHA8m »

diimdeep wrote: post #153
WHA8m wrote: post #149

I like this thread. A bunch of possibly above average intelligent people going all in on discussing why and how such an attack was done. Very entertaining to read. What struck me, was that a few of you seriously think about the US as a contender for this attack. Does anyone has an recent example of the US being that hostile to friend nations?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2004/02/27/r...

> Reagan

I don't consider this 'recent'.

What came to mind in the meantime is the "spying on friends" that was published by Snowden. But there wasn't some physical damage done which I think marks a different boundary.

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#158

Post by dang »

apexalpha wrote: post #154
WHA8m wrote: post #149

I like this thread. A bunch of possibly above average intelligent people going all in on discussing why and how such an attack was done. Very entertaining to read. What struck me, was that a few of you seriously think about the US as a contender for this attack. Does anyone has an recent example of the US being that hostile to friend nations?

>What struck me, was that a few of you think about the US as a serious contender for this attack. Does anyone has an recent example of the US being that hostile to friend nations? This narative was a little too quick, too widespread and too concise if you ask me. A lot of new-ish accounts quickly posted this version on all different English social media but I've yet to see it on Dutch, Belgian or French social media.…

"Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#160

Post by rendall »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #134
rendall wrote: post #67

Everyone seems to know it was Russia and is just casting out ideas to find a plausible motivation. I find that completely baffling. For opportunity, consider that while setting up the pipeline needs a weird high-pressure residence and special training, blowing it up takes a fishing boat, scuba gear and underwater explosives. The equipment and training is cheap and available. So, those with opportunity is almost anyon…

I mean the smoking gun here is a statement from Biden back in February that they will take steps to stop it. Official statement: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases... > As I have made clear, we will not hesitate to take further steps if Russia continues to escalate. Interview quotes: > "If Russia invades... again, then there will be longer Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it." > When a…

> "the smoking gun"

That's not a smoking gun.

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