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Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

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Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#91

Post by saiya-jin »

rendall wrote: post #67

Everyone seems to know it was Russia and is just casting out ideas to find a plausible motivation. I find that completely baffling. For opportunity, consider that while setting up the pipeline needs a weird high-pressure residence and special training, blowing it up takes a fishing boat, scuba gear and underwater explosives. The equipment and training is cheap and available. So, those with opportunity is almost anyon…

You realize that that gas didn't evaporate but will be eventually sold to somebody else. Even if for lower prices. Russia doesn't have money issue right now, rather political/military one. The guy on top with his close circle has few hundreds billions stashed all around the world, he doesn't desperately need to get more immediately.

Your arguments are valid but what baffles me in this topic is why folks try so hard to find completely rational explanations for russian actions now. People with hurt egos do stupid things all the time. Look at the clusterf*k that is Ukraine, how they keep doing stupid things that hurt them on and on.

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#92

Post by closewith »

Zardoz84 wrote: post #82
rendall wrote: post #67

Everyone seems to know it was Russia and is just casting out ideas to find a plausible motivation. I find that completely baffling. For opportunity, consider that while setting up the pipeline needs a weird high-pressure residence and special training, blowing it up takes a fishing boat, scuba gear and underwater explosives. The equipment and training is cheap and available. So, those with opportunity is almost anyon…

You forgot to mention EEUU... Think about to WHO we are buying now gas. PD: Also, we can try to not tarnish more the anarchists. Probably they would be the last guys to try to blow it .

For those confused like me, EEUU is a Spanish contraction for the US.

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#93

Post by belter »

rendall wrote: post #67

Everyone seems to know it was Russia and is just casting out ideas to find a plausible motivation. I find that completely baffling. For opportunity, consider that while setting up the pipeline needs a weird high-pressure residence and special training, blowing it up takes a fishing boat, scuba gear and underwater explosives. The equipment and training is cheap and available. So, those with opportunity is almost anyon…

Russia or no Russia, the analysis by experts says it was neither an accident or natural cause. - https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/09/someone-probably-ble...

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#94

Post by gambiting »

tuatoru wrote: post #90
rendall wrote: post #67

Everyone seems to know it was Russia and is just casting out ideas to find a plausible motivation. I find that completely baffling. For opportunity, consider that while setting up the pipeline needs a weird high-pressure residence and special training, blowing it up takes a fishing boat, scuba gear and underwater explosives. The equipment and training is cheap and available. So, those with opportunity is almost anyon…

> Resist going for "Clearly, Russia!". Just spitballing here, but why not a German opposition group? Norway? Poland? Any activist group opposed to EU dependence on Russia? Why treat "Russia" as a unitary actor? By doing this, Putin takes away a major reason for deposing him - whoever takes over is not going to get those sweet, sweet Euro millions in return for stopping the invasion and withdrawing. It's a game-theore…

>>because if Ukraine falls, Poland suddenly borders the Russian empire.

Poland already has a border with Russia. But yes, we would very much prefer not to make it an even bigger one.

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#95

Post by AndrewThrowaway »

rendall wrote: post #84
gambiting wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> it generally makes absolutely no sense for Russia to be behind this Of course it does - Poland is entirely relying on the Norway to Poland gas pipeline, if that goes then a country of 50 million people has no gas this winter. Blowing up the Nordstream was(to me) a clear signal that EU needs to be careful or the Norwegian pipelines are going up next.

Why not then blow up the Norway to Poland gas pipeline itself?

Because it would be a direct attack on NATO.

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#96

Post by rendall »

nixass wrote: post #75
readthenotes1 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why Russia? Biden and sone State Dept official both said NS2 would stop if Russia invaded. Seems like a promise kept

Quoted post unavailable.

What contractual obligations, specifically? What are the penalties for not meeting its "contractual obligations"? Are these penalties greater than the hundreds of billions of Euros that Europe would be prepared to pay were things back to normal?

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#97

Post by that_guy_iain »

rendall wrote: post #67

Everyone seems to know it was Russia and is just casting out ideas to find a plausible motivation. I find that completely baffling. For opportunity, consider that while setting up the pipeline needs a weird high-pressure residence and special training, blowing it up takes a fishing boat, scuba gear and underwater explosives. The equipment and training is cheap and available. So, those with opportunity is almost anyon…

> Resist going for "Clearly, Russia!". Just spitballing here, but why not a German opposition group? Norway? Poland? Any activist group opposed to EU dependence on Russia? Shit, why not Danish anarchists, for that matter?

Realistically, it would have to have been a military operation. Causing explosions in the middle of the sea is rather difficult. And probably near impossible for your average terrorist group.

Personally, I suspect it's the US. It does have the earmarks of a Russia operation tho. It's just deniable in a weird way while they still get the credit for it.

However, what does Russia gain by reducing the dependency on Russian gas? Before they were trying to get Germany to open up Nordstream 2 since it's complete but now that's not possible. Gas prices go up but if you're ability to sell gas is limited that doesn't help much.

On the otherside are the US, who are well known for operating shady secret missions to affect geo politics in their favour. The fact it happened on the day another gas pipeline opens would make it seem like it's possible that someone wanted the other gas pipeline to become more popular and used instead.

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#98

Post by housingisaright »

rendall wrote: post #67

Everyone seems to know it was Russia and is just casting out ideas to find a plausible motivation. I find that completely baffling. For opportunity, consider that while setting up the pipeline needs a weird high-pressure residence and special training, blowing it up takes a fishing boat, scuba gear and underwater explosives. The equipment and training is cheap and available. So, those with opportunity is almost anyon…

? who else would've done it? Stop pretending. 'Maybe not russia??' is an exciting idea, but this is not a Tom Clancy novel and no such groups in Europe exists. Especially that would have the resources to carry out an attack like this.

The destruction of the pipeline happens simultaneous as Russia is in a direct conflict with Ukraine/Europe and is constantly flying drones at Norwegian oil platforms.

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#99

Post by that_guy_iain »

_kbh_ wrote: post #69
rendall wrote: post #67

Everyone seems to know it was Russia and is just casting out ideas to find a plausible motivation. I find that completely baffling. For opportunity, consider that while setting up the pipeline needs a weird high-pressure residence and special training, blowing it up takes a fishing boat, scuba gear and underwater explosives. The equipment and training is cheap and available. So, those with opportunity is almost anyon…

Why did these groups miss a pipe on Nord Stream 2 that remains undamaged, and can be used by Russia to try and force certification of NS2 if things get bad?.

They didn't they got both. Nord Stream 2 has a leak too.

Re: Nord Stream: Tie-ins and hyperbaric welding

#100

Post by rendall »

AndrewThrowaway wrote: post #95
rendall wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not then blow up the Norway to Poland gas pipeline itself?

Because it would be a direct attack on NATO.

The Nord Stream sabotage is not? You know some of the explosions happened on NATO territory, right?
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